Alleymom

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Posts by Alleymom

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  53

  VAT 4956 - Comparison Of The Lunar Three Time Intervals For Years 568/7 BCE and 588/7 BCE

  by AnnOMaly in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  vat 4956 - comparison of the lunar three time intervals for years 568/7 b.c.e.

  the online sky view cafe (svc) and the cartes du ciel* (cdc) astronomy programs have been used for these results.. observer's location: babylon, 32 33' n / 44 24' e.. sr = sunrise; ss = sunset; mr = moonrise; ms = moonset.. .

  svc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 1.75 to 6.5. average difference 3.5.. cdc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 0.75 to 8.5. average difference 4. .

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  Alleymom

  LOL at George's comment!
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  53

  VAT 4956 - Comparison Of The Lunar Three Time Intervals For Years 568/7 BCE and 588/7 BCE

  by AnnOMaly in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  vat 4956 - comparison of the lunar three time intervals for years 568/7 b.c.e.

  the online sky view cafe (svc) and the cartes du ciel* (cdc) astronomy programs have been used for these results.. observer's location: babylon, 32 33' n / 44 24' e.. sr = sunrise; ss = sunset; mr = moonrise; ms = moonset.. .

  svc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 1.75 to 6.5. average difference 3.5.. cdc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 0.75 to 8.5. average difference 4. .

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  Alleymom

  AnnOMaly:: Regarding the differences in figures:
  
  For 567 BCE, XII.1 - I get the same figures as you do, and 104m / 4 = 26º ... (25.75º x 4 = 103m).
  
  For 587 BCE (P&D), XII.1 - I get the same figures as you, but I copied in the wrong fraction (dammit!). You are correct and it should be 27.25°. The difference between the text and computed figure remains 2.25°.

  Thanks! It's easy to make careless mistakes when dealing with a mass of figures, but I can't believe I goofed that one. Color me red.

  The good news is that we now agree on all 21 results for Sky View Cafe.
  I will change my worksheet to reflect that.

  Marjorie
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  53

  VAT 4956 - Comparison Of The Lunar Three Time Intervals For Years 568/7 BCE and 588/7 BCE

  by AnnOMaly in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  vat 4956 - comparison of the lunar three time intervals for years 568/7 b.c.e.

  the online sky view cafe (svc) and the cartes du ciel* (cdc) astronomy programs have been used for these results.. observer's location: babylon, 32 33' n / 44 24' e.. sr = sunrise; ss = sunset; mr = moonrise; ms = moonset.. .

  svc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 1.75 to 6.5. average difference 3.5.. cdc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 0.75 to 8.5. average difference 4. .

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  Alleymom

  Inquiring minds may wonder why East is on the left side of the Sky View Cafe picture and West is on the right.
  (In the previous posts you can see pictures showing sunrise with the sun on the left side.)
  
  Here is the answer from www.skyviewcafe.com:

  Some people might wonder why the E for East is on the left of the Sky display when the selected view orientation puts S for south is on the bottom. This takes a little getting use to for some people, but you have to realize that you're seeing a representation of a view that you'd see looking upward into the sky. In fact, it's useful to imagine yourself lying flat on your back with your head pointing North, gazing up into the sky.
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  53

  VAT 4956 - Comparison Of The Lunar Three Time Intervals For Years 568/7 BCE and 588/7 BCE

  by AnnOMaly in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  vat 4956 - comparison of the lunar three time intervals for years 568/7 b.c.e.

  the online sky view cafe (svc) and the cartes du ciel* (cdc) astronomy programs have been used for these results.. observer's location: babylon, 32 33' n / 44 24' e.. sr = sunrise; ss = sunset; mr = moonrise; ms = moonset.. .

  svc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 1.75 to 6.5. average difference 3.5.. cdc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 0.75 to 8.5. average difference 4. .

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  Alleymom

  Side by side comparison of Lunar Three interval SR -MS for Month I, day 14, year 568 BCE and year 588 BCE.*
  * Where New Year, Nisanu 1 = May 2/3, 588 BCE.
• 
  53

  VAT 4956 - Comparison Of The Lunar Three Time Intervals For Years 568/7 BCE and 588/7 BCE

  by AnnOMaly in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  vat 4956 - comparison of the lunar three time intervals for years 568/7 b.c.e.

  the online sky view cafe (svc) and the cartes du ciel* (cdc) astronomy programs have been used for these results.. observer's location: babylon, 32 33' n / 44 24' e.. sr = sunrise; ss = sunset; mr = moonrise; ms = moonset.. .

  svc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 1.75 to 6.5. average difference 3.5.. cdc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 0.75 to 8.5. average difference 4. .

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  Alleymom

  Okay, I have been leading up to this one!
  
  VAT 4956 records a time-interval of 16 minutes between sunrise and moonset (SR - MS) on Month I, day 14 of Nebuchadnezzar' 37th year.
  We have seen that a modern astronomy program, Sky View Cafe (SVC), shows the interval SR - MS was 15 minutes on that date in 568 BCE, which is the year accepted by all scholars.
  
  The WT proposes the alternate year 588 BCE.

  That date is IMPOSSIBLE because on Month I, day 14 of 588 BCE (where New Year was on May 2/3), we cannot measure the time that elapsed between sunrise and moonset because the full moon was NOT VISIBLE IN THE SKY AT SUNRISE! It had already set.

  This is the meaning of the ! in AnnOMaly's charts Two and Three in the first post of this thread.

  The WT tries to confuse matters in their discussion of the Lunar Threes in footnote 18a on page 28 of "When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed? Part Two," WT 11/1/2011 by saying the measurements taken by the "ancient observers" using "some sort of clock" were "not reliable."

  It does not matter what kind of clock you have if you cannot measure SR - MS because the moon is NOT EVEN IN THE SKY. It does not matter if you have a Timex, or a Rolex, or an atomic clock, or an ancient water clock, or if you just count ONE-Mississippi, TWO-Mississippi --- you cannot measure moonset for a moon that is not there!

  Here is the picture:
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  53

  VAT 4956 - Comparison Of The Lunar Three Time Intervals For Years 568/7 BCE and 588/7 BCE

  by AnnOMaly in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  vat 4956 - comparison of the lunar three time intervals for years 568/7 b.c.e.

  the online sky view cafe (svc) and the cartes du ciel* (cdc) astronomy programs have been used for these results.. observer's location: babylon, 32 33' n / 44 24' e.. sr = sunrise; ss = sunset; mr = moonrise; ms = moonset.. .

  svc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 1.75 to 6.5. average difference 3.5.. cdc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 0.75 to 8.5. average difference 4. .

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  Alleymom

  Okay, this is moonset on the same day as the previous picture.
  Moonset was at 5:29 am, 15 minutes after sunrise, which was at 5:14 am.
  Year is still 568 BCE, the year that all scholars accept.

  Next up will be Month I, day 14 in the WT's proposed year of 588 BCE.
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  53

  VAT 4956 - Comparison Of The Lunar Three Time Intervals For Years 568/7 BCE and 588/7 BCE

  by AnnOMaly in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  vat 4956 - comparison of the lunar three time intervals for years 568/7 b.c.e.

  the online sky view cafe (svc) and the cartes du ciel* (cdc) astronomy programs have been used for these results.. observer's location: babylon, 32 33' n / 44 24' e.. sr = sunrise; ss = sunset; mr = moonrise; ms = moonset.. .

  svc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 1.75 to 6.5. average difference 3.5.. cdc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 0.75 to 8.5. average difference 4. .

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  Alleymom

  Let's see if this picture is any sharper.
  Once again I am showing a picture of sunrise on May 6, 568 BCE.
  Pay attention to the full moon on the right side of the picture in the western sky.

  In a minute I will show the view from the WT's proposed year of 588 BCE.
  In 588 BCE you will not see the moon in the sky at sunrise because it had already set.
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  53

  VAT 4956 - Comparison Of The Lunar Three Time Intervals For Years 568/7 BCE and 588/7 BCE

  by AnnOMaly in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  vat 4956 - comparison of the lunar three time intervals for years 568/7 b.c.e.

  the online sky view cafe (svc) and the cartes du ciel* (cdc) astronomy programs have been used for these results.. observer's location: babylon, 32 33' n / 44 24' e.. sr = sunrise; ss = sunset; mr = moonrise; ms = moonset.. .

  svc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 1.75 to 6.5. average difference 3.5.. cdc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 0.75 to 8.5. average difference 4. .

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  Alleymom

  I'm not sure if this will display well, but here is a shot of Sky View Cafe showing Month 1, Day 14, year 568 BCE.
  This is the first of the Lunar Threes recorded on astronomical diary VAT 4956.
  The ancient Babylonian astronomers recorded a time interval of 16 minutes between sunrise and moonset.
  The modern astronomy program Sky View Cafe shows that there were 15 minutes between sunrise and moonset, which is quite accurate.
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  55

  VAT 4956 Astronomical Observations

  by VM44 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  starting a new thread to discuss the astronomical observations recorded in vat 4956..

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  Alleymom

  VM44 and others reading this thread --

  AnnOMaly has started a new thread specifically about the Lunar Three measurements. I suggest we continue over there.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/216056/1/VAT-4956-Comparison-Of-The-Lunar-Three-Time-Intervals-For-Years-568-7-BCE-and-588-7-BCE#4114407
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  53

  VAT 4956 - Comparison Of The Lunar Three Time Intervals For Years 568/7 BCE and 588/7 BCE

  by AnnOMaly in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  vat 4956 - comparison of the lunar three time intervals for years 568/7 b.c.e.

  the online sky view cafe (svc) and the cartes du ciel* (cdc) astronomy programs have been used for these results.. observer's location: babylon, 32 33' n / 44 24' e.. sr = sunrise; ss = sunset; mr = moonrise; ms = moonset.. .

  svc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 1.75 to 6.5. average difference 3.5.. cdc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 0.75 to 8.5. average difference 4. .

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  Alleymom

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/145519/5/587-607-Question

  In post 1176, I wrote:
  
  Neil, let me give one example. On dates near the middle of a lunar month, the moon sets in the western sky shortly after the sun comes up in the east. So you have sunrise in the east, and then a little later you have moonset in the west. You can measure how much time passes between sunrise and moonset.VAT 4956 gives measurements on two* different days (Month I, day 14 and Month XII, day 12) for the time-interval between sunrise and moonset.
  
  Furuli's dates are absolutely impossible, because on his days, the moon actually set before sunup! You can't measure the interval between sunrise and moonset if the moon has already set before the sun comes up.
  I hope this helps.
  
  *[Note: When I wrote this I left one out. There are actually three middle-of-the-month measurements on VAT 4956 that are absolutely impossible in the year that Furuli proposes.

  Repeated with new emphasis.

  Say it is the middle of the lunar month in ancient Babylon. Remember, the first day of the month is when you can see the sliver of the crescent moon, the new moon, for the first time. So around the middle of the month you are looking at a moon that is just about a full moon.

  If you wake up early, a little before sunrise, it is still dark and you can see the full moon in the western sky. The sun rises in the east (duh!) and a little later the moon sets in the west. VAT 4956 measures the time BETWEEN sunrise and moonset. We abbreviate this SR - MS.

  If the moon sets BEFORE the sun comes up, then the interval SR - MS is meaningless! You can't measure the interval between sunrise and moonset if the moon has already set and IS NOT THERE IN THE SKY!

  In footnote 18a of the article, "When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed? Part Two", WT 11/1/2011), the WT tries to discredit the Lunar Three time intervals. The WT claims the Lunar Three time intervals were supposedly unreliable measurements because those ancient waterclocks were not accurate.

  Folks, the accuracy or inaccuracy of the water clocks does not matter if the MOON WASN'T EVEN IN THE SKY to be measured!