Posts by Amazing

45

Bill O'Reilly vs. David Silverman: You Know They're All Scams

by whereami in

jw
friends

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xegkvilbtk.

funny comments:.

"i know i'm not the smartest guy in town".

Amazing

Whereami: "Then you have people googling O'Reilly's education, lol, what a trip. How old are we?" Your comment suggests that somehow it is immature to revisit someone's education. You Ex-JWs do this all the time in checking into the lack of education of the Watchtower leadership. Why is that immature? Farkel noted that O'Reilly is Harvard educated in response to someone alleging that he is stupid. Farkel's response is valid. A stupid person cannot get through college with honors ... especially a university like Harvard. I looked up O'Reilly's background because I wanted to see in what field he is educated. It seemed interesting, and I posted it. Like so many posters, you do not make any real or substantive argument, but you spout mere rhetoric in full false argumentation style ... it is unimpressive and does not inform or add to anything.

BizzyBee: It is obvious that you do not like O'Reilly because of his views ... rather than making a solid presentation of your views and how they have greater merit, you resort to dismissing and belittling someone with whom you disagree. Fox commentators are no worse or better than any other network. I would love to see some example, some basic high school or first year college argument that has substance which would support your assertions. Worst of all, most of the comments by many are against O'Reilly, when in fact it was the atheist who made an ass of himself by asserting that all religion is a scam and that the majority who attend churches are also duped atheists ... he offered no data, no facts, no studies, no sources ... he fell flat on his face. In that segment, it is clearly O'Reilly who was reasonable, and Silverman who made flawed arguments.

Overall assessment: Farkel made a powerful challenge to you two to do some real homework, get some facts, and make solid arguments and learn how to avoid false arguments. Instead you are the ones who resort to silly immature debate ... is that all you can do as ex-JWs? Has not your ex-JW life led you to want to obtain higher education and develop good critical thinking skills? Or, do you even have a clue as to how badly the JW world really crippled your ability to engage in rational discussion?

VM44: You are correct about O'Reilly's use of tides ... I knew what he wanted to accomplish, but he used a poor illustration ... and it is the most detracting part of his side of the debate. Overall, O'Reilly did okay. Silverman is a nut case, even by atheistic standards.

45

Bill O'Reilly vs. David Silverman: You Know They're All Scams

by whereami in

jw
friends

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xegkvilbtk.

funny comments:.

"i know i'm not the smartest guy in town".

Amazing

Hi Farkel:

Good to see you too ... I will send you a PM shortly. You make some great points. Also, while Michael Moore denounces "capitalism" as evil and sick ... yet, he makes many millions selling his brand of propaganda ... he certainly seems hypocritical to me ... he wants fame and fortune, but he will never give up his wealth for the state ... he just want everyone else to do it for him.

19

Jehovah's Witnesses Take Pride In Being Ignorant

by minimus in

jw
friends

witnesses love to say they are in the best school available---the theocratic ministry school.

witnesses don't want you to express research on a subject when giving a comment during a meeting.

just read verbatim what is in the paragraph.

Amazing

Sadly, the JWs have attracted some people of considerable education ... and the Society has paid some of their Bethel staff to attend law school and pass the New York bar. Quite a number of good engineers, structural and civil especially, have been temporary workers at Bethel during the days of construction expansion. I worked with some of these folks during my early engineering career on the west coast ... fortunately, I never went to Bethel or gave away my services to the organization ... eventually critical thinking and hard experience caused me to search out the organization, and then leave it.

26

Religion is Dead..

by Quirky1 in

jw
friends

in my books...

Amazing

Good to see you too Lady Lee.

Cofty: Yea, yea ... Europe has had its day at screwing itself and the rest of the world ... hence why many had to flee to the new world ... and, sadly, the USA appears to be reaching the zenith of its influence and power, at least its dollar is going declining rapidly, and will become worth less than the Mexican Peso ... the next interesting nation is China ... now, it makes one want to study Confucianism and invest in the (¥) Yuan! ... PS: The Chinese Yuan and Japanese Yen use the same symbol: ¥ ... spooky.

45

Bill O'Reilly vs. David Silverman: You Know They're All Scams

by whereami in

jw
friends

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xegkvilbtk.

funny comments:.

"i know i'm not the smartest guy in town".

Amazing

O'Reilly's education:

He attended Marist College, majored in history, an honor student, received a BA in history in 1971
He went abroad in junior year, attending Queen Mary College at the University of London.
He earned an M.A. in Broadcast Journalism from Boston University in 1973.
He earned a Master of Public Administration from Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government. At Harvard he was a student of the renown Marvin Kalb.

While many do not like the man for his perceived "conservative" views, many also do not like him for his perceived "liberal" views. He is actually socially liberal on some issues, conservative on other issues, and fiscally a moderate. He irritates people in all spheres and opinions ... which is good ... it makes him thought provoking.

45

Bill O'Reilly vs. David Silverman: You Know They're All Scams

by whereami in

jw
friends

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xegkvilbtk.

funny comments:.

"i know i'm not the smartest guy in town".

Amazing

I did not see any real problem with the Fox segment. I thought that O' Reilly could have used a better illustration than tides ... but he does not worship the moon.

If religion is a scam, then Atheism is just as much a scam ... religion is about faith, not proof. Atheism is also about faith and not proof. Atheism is simply inverted in that it asserts there is no God, which is a statement of faith and not proof ... and it is an arrogant assertion for humans to assume that there is or is not a god, or powerful creative beings living in other dimensions ... for this universe is too big, and the possibilities too great to be so proudly bold to make such claims.

Faith is a personal matter of the heart ... and both sides need to get off of their high horses.

26

Religion is Dead..

by Quirky1 in

jw
friends

in my books...

Amazing

Religion is alive and well ... in 2010 the Catholic Church in the USA alone grew by over 1.1 million to 68 million ... and worldwide all of Catholicism (Roman Rite and various affiliations) it is about 1.2 billion and growing. The Catholic Church grows more in one year in the USA than it took the JWs 100 years to achieve ... and some years the Catholics grow by about 3 million in the USA. Mormons, Assembly of God and others are on the rise ... and some like Southern Baptists declined some last year ... bottom line is that religion is doing well ...

Sources:

Growth or Decline in the USA:http://www.ncccusa.org/news/100204yearbook2010.html

Total Worldwide figures: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

39

Question for Board/Current JWs re Holy Spirit/holy spirit...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

may you all have peace!.

in another post, a dear one mentioned that a jw relative ceased being... ummmm... contentious, when the dear one told her that, after praying about it, they were allowing themselves "to be guided by holy spirit and not doctrine from a man-made organization.

" that the latter felt "wrong.

Amazing

Hi Shelby,

Maybe a year ago a JW stopped at my door and discussed the latest magazine regarding the holy spirit, as they define it. We discussed the topic for about 45 minutes, along with some side points. I pointed him to Acts 13:2-4 where the Holy Spirit expresses his will and speaks in first person. He played the typical "personification" card. I pointed out to him that Acts is a historical narrative, not subject to use of poetic literary styles. Otherwise, one could make the same argument that when the Devil speaks in first person, it is just a personification of evil. When he left, he promised to return to see what I thought of the magazine article. But he never did return.

Perhaps the reaction of the JWs you mention is their inherent fear of encountering a type of Christian, like a Pentecostal, Assembly of God, or Four Square. These and other types of charismatics are thought by many JWs to be "demon-ized" because JWs believe that the Holy Spirit is just a blind force, and not a person. It is a form of stereotyping bias on their part. Charismatic Christians never bothered me, so, I would talk with them when I was a JW.

Side note: Some ex-JWs, I notice, still get confused by the Trinity, and think that Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are the same persons ... which they are not. No Trinitarian worth his/her salt would ever say so. But, here too JWs, and thus some ex-JWs, still have it confused because of misleading Watchtower teachings about the traditional doctrines of mainline Christianity, especially the Trinity.

Jim

6

How can they say that every human DESERVES to die

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

religion generally sickens me.

for various reasons.

perhaps in my own case it is just because of my bad experiences.. however, in my own moments of deep thought i cannot help but realise how absolutely insane some of the teachings are.. how can jw's (and other religions) say that every human deserves to die.

Amazing

Unfortunately the Watchtower Publishing company has warped the minds of JWs so much that they carry this hatred any anything religious with them into their ex-JW lives ... the Watchtower continues to control ex-JWs, even though they believe that they are free.

The Catholic Church teaches that we deserve to live ... and that the stain of sin is paid by the death of Christ, which is very "scriptural." Most Evangelical teach similarly, that it is not what we do, but only what Christ did that counts. All we need to do is have faith in Jesus ... and we are free. Faith as tiny as a "mustard seed" is more than enough for God. I cannot fathom the problem. Hell is a condition where one chooses to be separate from God ... the "fires" are a metaphor for a choice that is unnatural and self-destructive.

Predestination was invented by John Calvin, one of the fathers of the 16th century Reformation that rebelled against a misguided and at times corrupt Church. Unfortunately, Calvin's teachings, like the Watchtower's, did not act to improve or reform, but rather added more confusion and hatred, leading to religious wars ... and led to more rebellion by more and more movements.

After a few years of being an ex-JW, I became somewhat of a Christian agnostic, rejecting religions, and not sure about God ... but I held to basic acceptance of the teachings of Christ ... yet I was moving farther from faith. Eventually, I was able to shed the warped thinking of Watchtower-ism, and chose to have faith and live free Jesus Christ. I did reconcile with the Catholic Church because that is where my roots are, and because of her basic good teachings. However, I make no excuses for her historic wrongs ... or the sins of some of her leaders. However, I do not hold my faith hostage for the sins of past generations ... they lived as they thought best ... they screwed up as humans do ... and I have to live as I best think, and hope that I and my generation will not be judged by my children and grand children's generations.

While the above views and attitudes by various posters is understandable ... I feel that the anger and warped thinking resulting from Watchtower false teaching allows many ex-JWs to live in a vacuum, and not grow and discover that Christianity is a wonderful faith once one chooses freedom in Christ (Gal. 5:1) as St. Paul puts it ... and to let go, forgive, and not feel this need to keep condemning religion ... for many billions who have faith are good and caring people and were never part of the "shit" created by many religious movements ... and do not deserve harsh judgment.

You all deserve to live and not die ... and honest Christians do not judge you. Live free ... if that means faith in Christ, then great. If it mean atheism or agnosticism ... so be it ... I just hope that you all can let go of the anger and move forward in a positive direction. - Jim

8

Who Owns Kingdom Halls & Land?

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i was just in a service meeting where the elder announced that the kh had been sold.

he gave the dollar amount and said it would be split between the two cong's currently meeting in it.

the cong i attend will move to another location which currently has a building with another cong in it, but there is also enough open space on the plot of land to build another edifice.

Amazing

This issue has been discussed a lot on JWD.

The local congregation "always" owns the Kingdom Hall. They purchased it. Even if they borrow from the Watchtower Society to finance new construction or renovation, it always belongs to the local congregation.

The big change came after the Bonham, Texas case. In that situation, the majority of the congregation voted to leave their affiliation with the Watchtower Society. The minority, along with the help of the Society sued to keep the Kingdom Hall. They plaintiffs lost, and the Bonham group got to take the Kingdom hall with them. The JWs left had to build a new Kingdom Hall. As a result, the Watchtower Society got every US congregation to put the Society on the deed as a Beneficiary in Trust. This means that if the congregation dissolves, or chooses to leave their affiliation with the Watchtower Society, that they agree to deed the Hall over to the Society as beneficiary. Until that time, the local congregation owns the Hall and has the final say in how they dispose of it, sell it, etc.

It is illogical that the congregation would buy the Hall using a Society mortgage, make payments for 30 years, and in the end the Society owns the Hall. There is no incentive to make any payments. Just let the Society own the Hall in the first place. If JWs had any sense they never would have put the Society as beneficiaries in Trust ... but they did it to protect the minority owners in the event there is a repeat of what happened in Bonham, Texas.