Norm, I think I said that when you have a mindset (not specifically religious people), then logic, reasoning won't work. Sorry if I wasn't sensitive enough to your anger and how you are still feeling. Is it possible that instead of the brainwashed Jdubs being the dim witted, it is really individuals who are - whatever labels you gave them - prior to being brainwashed. After all, would a sensible, logical person fall for that stuff. I had no choice - I was raised in it and can plead (?) ignorance. However their message is very appealing to people who are very vulnerable to predators. Once one is brainwashed are we then not just victim blaming?
Posts by AMOS
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65The dim people
by Norm inthe dim people.
the new world society.
the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.
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65
The dim people
by Norm inthe dim people.
the new world society.
the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.
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AMOS
Hi Tina & Ozzie
Logic is shaped by experience, education and belief. For some people logic tells them there is no god but for the vast majority of the human race logic tells them there is a god or gods. Whose logic is the most logical? Logic is as subjective as belief. If by logic you are referring to scientific discovery as the criterion the most you can say is that with the instrumentation available at the moment scientists have not been able to measure the existence of god. Two hundred years ago, scientists were not able to measure the existence of viruses and hence did not believe in their existence. The inadequancy of scientific measuring systems does not prove the non-existence of anything. The most you can say is that "at the moment science has been unable to determine whether god exists". No true scientist is ever able to say more than that. To state categorically there is no god is another way of saying that you know all things about everything, past present and future and that you have been in the whole universe to know there isn't a god. If you don't know everything then one can't logically say that there is no god, only that there possibly isn't a god, in which case it is equally possible that there is one.
My point was simply that when we have mindsets - these must have had input from the outside then until we examine our mindsets, religious or otherwise, we can be manipulated by those mindsets. The question really then is, what's your poison? Cheers -
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Watchtower Study - Aug 12
by hippikon inthough he had every right to cut off com-munication with humans, jehovah did not do so.
enlightenment.. 5, 6. in what ways did jehovah commu-nicate with his people before the first century c.e., and how did this bene-fit them?.
do you discern how the holy spirit has influenced your life for the better?.
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AMOS
Hi Individuals wife:
Your scenario sounds too familiar. I recall being at an assembly years ago, exhausted with minding 3 small children, while the husband did the "spiritual JW bit" being in charge of departments etc. and sitting down and thinking about Jesus' words, "come to me for rest - my load is kindly and light" and I recall thinking what a lot of nonsense, how burdensome and hard trying to be a JW was with no guarantee of not dying in Armageddon anyway. There was never any rest. Thank God I now have the peace that passes all understanding and am free. -
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Submit your favorite quote!
by Spartacus inwhen a difficulty is deep and painful, the triumph is glorious and jubilant.. -spartacus 2001
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AMOS
From "Purpose Driven Church", can't remember author. When you always do what you've always done you'll always be where you've always been.
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65
The dim people
by Norm inthe dim people.
the new world society.
the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.
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AMOS
Norm,
Phew, that was a bit rough. That's the problem with brainwashing - you can't see, hear, feel or touch it. But mind you, it's no different for the rest of the world, once a certain mindset is accepted it's just as hard to shift anyone from their position, whether they be RC, or a cultist, or a political party follower or just have a mindset about social issues. That's why it's so hard to communicate with someone who is brainwashed - as soon as a button (trigger word, such as cross, Xmas ) the tape turns on. Unfortunately, logic, facts, reason does not work - anymore it does with most people. I suppose the bottom line is it doesn't matter whether you are a JW, a Mormon, SDA or some other cult, or just a plain atheist - except for the misery it causes to so many. Just Satan at work blinding the minds of people - not about the borg but the good news about Jesus. -
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To alamb
by TweetieBird inyou stated in another post.... "i personally am eternally grateful that someone went out on a limb to talk to me.
after the first 5 minutes, 35 years of beliefs melted away and i was able to see beyond the lies.
the puzzle finally fit.".
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AMOS
Tweetie
There is no technique, no words or method that works for all. Let God do his work and faithfully keep sowing the seed and watering in the meantime. -
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Prevalence of JW Suicides - Real or Imagined?
by AMNESIAN inin one or two recent threads i've seen reference to the possibility of a rising number of jw suicides being another of the organization's very dark realities about which it is vigilant in keeping concealed from its pub populace.
is there anyone reasonably informed regarding this?
is there reason to suppose the incidence ratio among jws is any higher than among any peoples/religion?
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AMOS
larc,
Strangely enough, at the time of the deaths, I think you are so programmed to think along certain lines, the resurrection etc that it's almost not real. And one is so judgemental! I recall reading in one journal recently that it's because of the WTs projection of better things to come, puts the NOW in an almost altered sense of consciousness and almost makes it "easy" for them to die. Strangely we feel the pain more now at the senseless loss of lives and the pain that our brothers and sisters must have gone through, than at the time. When my brother in law shot himself, my poor husband only a teenager who was cradling him as he died, kept saying to his JW parents, over and over, "don't let them give him blood". (not that would have made any difference) No funeral, no grieving, just a hard line on the wicked thing he had done to himself and the local congregations banned from attending anything. My husband occasionally weeps over it now. Thanks for your comments. -
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Prevalence of JW Suicides - Real or Imagined?
by AMNESIAN inin one or two recent threads i've seen reference to the possibility of a rising number of jw suicides being another of the organization's very dark realities about which it is vigilant in keeping concealed from its pub populace.
is there anyone reasonably informed regarding this?
is there reason to suppose the incidence ratio among jws is any higher than among any peoples/religion?
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AMOS
Having been in the "truth" for a long long time with parents and grandparents I knew from them that "no blood" was not always the case. It started out by the Scty banning vaccinations because they did not believe in germs. When research positively showed there were germs, you were still not allowed to be vaccinated because they used horse serum.... and so it went on. If you have access back to the old Watchtowers, like 1884 and onwards, poor old brother Russell himself would be dfd today for being an apostate. Another area that is not looked at is the number of abortions for the sake of the "truth" when in Armageddon was supposed to have come in the 1940- 1950's (54 to be exact - 40 years from 1914, and those in full time service could not afford to be pregnant. "Woe to them etc.. I've actually met women who had this done because of the ostracism rained down on them for falling pregnant. More tragedy.
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Prevalence of JW Suicides - Real or Imagined?
by AMNESIAN inin one or two recent threads i've seen reference to the possibility of a rising number of jw suicides being another of the organization's very dark realities about which it is vigilant in keeping concealed from its pub populace.
is there anyone reasonably informed regarding this?
is there reason to suppose the incidence ratio among jws is any higher than among any peoples/religion?
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AMOS
How can the video be obtained?
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82
Prevalence of JW Suicides - Real or Imagined?
by AMNESIAN inin one or two recent threads i've seen reference to the possibility of a rising number of jw suicides being another of the organization's very dark realities about which it is vigilant in keeping concealed from its pub populace.
is there anyone reasonably informed regarding this?
is there reason to suppose the incidence ratio among jws is any higher than among any peoples/religion?
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AMOS
There was a study done in Western Australia some years ago which showed that Jehovah's witnesses had 16 times the average population rate of schizophrenia. This can be located in medical literature. What the study did not show was did Jehovah's witnesses attract people with mental health problems or was it the system that exacerbated underlying problems. My husband and I have been raised as Witnesses and we know of 16 cases of suicide and 1 attempt involving 2 family members, close friends, and acquaintences over a period of about 20 years. I am vaguely aware of a similar study in Switzerland but have no references. The number of women who only talked suicide in our congregation was staggering. What a tragedy.