@Wonderment thank you for your reply
jw-verite: The problem with adding "other" in Colossians is that it contradicts all other scriptures saying that ALL things where created by Jesus. So Jesus could not create himself could he? Cf. John 1:2; 1:10; 1 Co 8:6; Heb 1:2 In all these verses there is no "other". If everything was created by Jesus then Jesus was not created. As simple as that...
First,thank you for your input. It is appreciated.
The Scriptures that you mentioned (Cf. John 1:2; 1:10; 1 Co 8:6; Heb 1:2) do not literally say that Jesus is "the Source" of creation. They indicate that Jesus was "the mediator" of creation. Notice those Scriptures carefully make use of the Greek prepositions "dia" ("through him") instead of "ex" ("out of" him) when referencing Jesus' role in creation. Is this significant?Newman & Nida, two scholars (Trinitarians) who worked closely with the American Bible Society, observe:
“The Greek phrase through him indicates that the Word was the agent in creation, but at the same time the context clearly implies that God is the ultimate source of creation …Similar expressions are found in Paul's writings and in the Letter to the Hebrews … The Greek text indicates clearly that the Word was the instrument or agency employed by God in the creation.” (A Translator's Handbook on the Gospel of John, Newman & Nida, p. 10.)
Jesus serving the role of "mediatorship" in the process of creation is not biblically depicted as offensive. (1 Tim. 2.5, Christ: "one mediator between God and men") On the contrary, Scripture states that Jesus is "the firstborn of all creation"; "the beginning of the creation of God." (Col. 1.15; Rev.3.14) Hence, "all" living creatures (excluding God) in the universe are commanded to "bow down" before Christ. (1 Cor. 15.27; Hebrews 1.6) These Scriptures rather than contradicting the explained view in the article, they support it. If Jesus as "mediator" is someone other than "God and men," why would "God" then not be "theSource of creation" instead of Jesus? The Scriptures do make a difference between God and Christ: "Christ is seated at the right hand of God." (Col. 3.1) Why is "God" always, and not Christ, at the center of it all?
I agree with you but the fact that Jesus is Mediator does not prove that He has been created. Did God need to create His own Word ? I don't think so. His Word is intimately linked to Him, in Him.
Look at Genesis 1, how did God create all things ? "God said...", "God said...", "God said..." so this is the way He created all things, by his own Word !
Psalms 33:6 : "By the word of Jehovah the heavens were made"
Psalms 33:9 : "For he spoke, and it came to be"
Relate this with John 1 and Colossians 1 and you can understand what I mean.
So I think that the Word of God belongs to him from all eternity. It is part of Him. It didn't need to be created. Note that we can use the same reasoning with the "wisdom" of Proverbs 8.
Concerning the "first born of all creation", the greek word "arche" does not necessarily imply a creation but is related to the position of superiority or "leadership" of Jesus over the creation.
Verse 18 tends to confirm this by saying : "And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy." (NIV)
jw-verite: In all these verses there is no "other". If everything was created by Jesus then Jesus was not created. As simple as that...
This statement could suggest that God is "powerless" to employ a dear one close to him in the process of creation, if he so wishes. Isn't he almighty? God can imbue anyone he wishes with lofty powers. As noted in the article, the "everything" does not require biblically speaking, that Jesus himself was excluded from being created. Christ is "the beginning ofthe creation of God." Not the ""beginner." (Rev. 3.14) Christ is ‘of creation.’ Even Jesus said that ‘God created the first human pair.’ (Matt. 19.4) He could say that because he acknowledged "God" is the source of it all. In fact, Jesus own existence was due to God. In John 6.57, he states: "I live because of the Father." An "eternal" creator would never issue those words. Would he?
This is pure speculation. The Word of God lives because of God that seems logical but as said before this does not imply that God needed to create his own Word.
(excuse my english but i'm French )