anyone else have an aversion to dress clothes, now that you aren't forced to wear a suit and tie (women insert their version here) to sit a stadium for 8 hours on a summer day?
being forced to do this as a young child traumatized me pretty good!
I definitely have the aversion to dresses.
I kept the jackets to some of my dress suits and wear them with nice slacks to job interviews and funerals. I have one or two dresses for weddings.
I just cleaned out my closet and my dub clothes went to the recycle center. It felt very liberating to do this. I am glad to shed the old non-life.
in the friends forum a topic was brought up about what belief made persons leave the organization.
while certain witness beliefs did cause me to doubt, i think learning certain facts about the bible was what made me finally leave.
i think it would be interesting, while controversial, to have an intense conversation about the bible and whether it is concretely true or not.
>>I couldnt disagree more. My view is that it does the complete opposite. The Biblical version of God and his exploits doesnt really tally up. I just cant see a god who created everything would be that petty and small minded. >>
I have to agree with you that many Bible accounts show exactly that kind of God. The Book of Job is a good example if taken literally. The dude who God struck dead for steadying the Ark is another. I think those really show an anthromorphic God.
Me:
>>>Is the Bible actually mythology and how could this view be helpful to the reader? Can a person still be inspired by the Bible if he/she recognises that quite a bit of it is embellishment and mythology? >>>>>Yes and yes. The gnostic view of the gospel accounts is more mythology than historical and yet they had no problem being inspired by its tales. People can be inspired by anything. >> Y--that is funny, sad and true. | |
in the friends forum a topic was brought up about what belief made persons leave the organization.
while certain witness beliefs did cause me to doubt, i think learning certain facts about the bible was what made me finally leave.
i think it would be interesting, while controversial, to have an intense conversation about the bible and whether it is concretely true or not.
<<The bible helps because it does show you glimpses of God. The "mythology" is angel spin. You can tell because God fades in and out of the stories. It is not his dictation. Some is not even holy writing it is things that belong in an almanac.
Can a literal interpretation lead to crazy making and neurotic behavior?
Yes, but as JWs don't take the bible litterally. They try to spin the angel spin which causes trouble>>
X--I read your topic on angels and then this. While I think you might have some points I think you are getting a little carried away about it. You are reminding me of a relative who when he is overstressed perserverates on certain subjects and if he is really stressed starts imagining that the tv and magazines are sending him personal messages. My relative actually is on to some truth sometimes but it is hard to take in his intenseness.
Joseph Campbell would say the problem here is that you are reading these myths as literal concrete events.
in the friends forum a topic was brought up about what belief made persons leave the organization.
while certain witness beliefs did cause me to doubt, i think learning certain facts about the bible was what made me finally leave.
i think it would be interesting, while controversial, to have an intense conversation about the bible and whether it is concretely true or not.
>>Its a meaningless book like a Koran, Book of Mormon, Chevy small block rebuilt book!!! >>
I think that was really clever, Got my forty!
I like to read works by Joseph Campbell, mythologist. He wrote that people would get much more out of the Bible if they would quit reading it as literal and realize much of it is myth. He felt that buried in many religious myths are essential truths that inspire all humankind. He got a lot of his ideas from the Psychiatrist Jung who claimed we all have access to a universal unconscious. From this spring universal symbols and would explain why certain symbols are to be found in many different cultures in diverse places.
I have trouble with this though, because of some of the ideas that are found in many religious works, like the Bible. I think the Bible espouses a very distorted view of women and the relationship between men and women. I think the Bible does elevate one race as God's chosen people. But then there are some beautiful scriptures that do seem to let the light of a Great Higher Power shine through. The scripture about God not being partial and that anyone may approach is a good example. Some of the Psalms are beautiful. However rereading the Psalms, I did see many that had violent or judgemental overtones. I like the books of Proverbs and Ecclesiastes which contain much practical wisdom. Proverbs 8 is a wonderful metaphor for wisdom and its relationship with the Great Spirit.
in the friends forum a topic was brought up about what belief made persons leave the organization.
while certain witness beliefs did cause me to doubt, i think learning certain facts about the bible was what made me finally leave.
i think it would be interesting, while controversial, to have an intense conversation about the bible and whether it is concretely true or not.
In the Friends Forum a topic was brought up about what belief made persons leave the organization. While certain witness beliefs did cause me to doubt, I think learning certain facts about the Bible was what made me finally leave. I think it would be interesting, while controversial, to have an intense conversation about the Bible and whether it is concretely true or not. The Witnesses do use the Bible as the source of most of their most cherished beliefs, while the correct interpretation of these texts is up for debate, also.
Is the Bible actually mythology and how could this view be helpful to the reader? Can a person still be inspired by the Bible if he/she recognises that quite a bit of it is embellishment and mythology?
Can a literal interpretation lead to crazy making and neurotic behavior?
Is the Bible superior to other religious holy writings?
my theory is that the angels god created are inherently malevolent, and were deliberately created that way.
while god may have all these nice qualities the angels that actually carry out ?his?
will don?t express them.. .
for me it was that god will destroy billions of innocent children simply because their parents weren't jehovah's witnesses.....and you??
?
I think the one thing that keeps me from returning is the misogyny taught and practiced by the organization.
Another thing is that I belong to the Y. I don't understand the problem of belonging. I didn't have to profess a belief in anything. There are no crosses anywhere on the building or anything else that would indicate it is religious in nature. The national director of the Y is possibly an atheist. It is just a very nice place to work out only a few blocks from my home. I have a health problem that necessitates regular exercise. I think that belonging or not belonging should be a conscience matter. Especially when the org itself was a ngo member of the UN for the purpose of using their library.
I think so so so many things that could get one marked, reproved or disfellowshipped should have been conscience matters like voting, celebrating holidays, certain marital intimacies, going to a funeral service or wedding held in another church, having a gun as a part of employment--like policemen, jury duty, etc.
I think that the organization encourages people to be judgmental and partial. Belonging to a congregation is like living in a small, gossipy, clannish town. You never feel like you have or are entitled to any privacy. Creativity and thinking outside the of the box are stifled, and will get a person censured.
And finally, I have lost belief that the Bible was inspired by God. I now see it as a book that contains much wisdom in places. But much of it contains mythology and embellishment. I think we can learn something from it and take value from it. But there exists parts of it that was politically motivated, and encouraged the subjugation of women.
One thing about 1914 I never understood. How they decided that that particular combination of numbers were really meant to go together. It always felt to me sort of random. Why would part of the equation be in the book of Daniel and the other part in Revelation? And why would God speak in code? How could they be sure they didn't miss a factor? I always felt like the whole thing was rather contrived. When I spoke to people I would concentrate on the signs of the last days, which seemed like it was more applicable.
what would say to someone that asks you that question now?
?
For an untold number of years men believed all sorts of things about the shape of the earth and the positions and movements of the earth. The fact that certain religious paradigms about the nature of God have existed for 2k yrs, and that the majority of people believed them, does not in fact prove that they are correct and absolutely truthful. They are concepts and have shown to be in need of reevaluation.
I think the cave analogy is correct and applicable.
what would say to someone that asks you that question now?
?
I think when you use the word wickedness this saying has some relevance:
We are all Victims of Victims.
Even when I was a Witness I thought "Why does God allow Suffering?" was a better and more accurate question.
what would say to someone that asks you that question now?
?
Gadget,I am a phase right now of my life that is questioning everything. I am reading alot of different books. I have to question the idea of wickedness itself. I think you have a point about examining the motive behind certain actions. I think when a person intends to cause harm to another, without provocation, most people would classify that as an act of wickedness. But wickedness seems to me to be antiquitated word. I think of it along with the word evil/ badness. We live such a short time in this realm. If there trully is no afterlife I think these words and ideas have true and awesome relevance.
But if there is a afterlife and we are here on the earth to grow as spiritual souls, then wickedness and endurance of it may serve some good purpose. If when we die, we return to the "light" as persons who have had near death experiences claim, our sufferings here may serve some purpose. It is said that the light--God source is non-judgemental and completely loving. I have to admit I would like to think of God in that sense. I am not sure about the growth on earth part but it does seem to give meaning to suffering. But what about the souls on earth who commit dark acts--I guess they would have to be viewed as ignorant, lost.
I wonder about people who hurt others. So many factors can come into play. Environment, Health, Mental Health. All the chemicals and electrical reactions in the brain. What makes a person decide to be loving and compassionate and another hurtful? And who is these things all the time? I know I am capable of love and kindness, and empathy. I am also capable of envy, negativity, anger, mistrust, and ignorance. I think that it is a mistake to label people as wicked or good. There is a continuum and people usually rest somewhere on a scale of negative and positive. Some people will allow themselves to grow as they gain knowledge and skills and are helped to find motivation to behave in more positive ways towards others.
I am thinking my God is compassionate and that is the way I want to be.
<<Good point. By the question ' Why does god permit wickedness', I presume you mean 'Why does god allow wicked thing/acts to happen'? But what is a wicked thing/act? If somebod attacked somebody and knocked them to the ground without provocation then I would class that as a wicked thing. But if somebody attacked somebody and knocked them to the ground because that person was raping somebody, and that was the minimum force required to stop that from occurring, I would not class that as a wicked thing. You can't destroy something if you don't know what it is, so what would you define wickedness as?>>