Posts by grows1

27

WT answers to Apostate lies, half truths and deceptions.

by Black Sheep in

.

i am looking for the wt articles that contest the lies, half truths and deceptions used by apostates to weaken jws faith in jehovah's spirit directed organization.. can anyone help me find them?.

please?

grows1

Sorry, but the only lies half-truths and deceptions I know that are in the WTBTS publications are the ones they print themselves.

50

What are you paying for gas in your neck of the woods?

by imallgrowedup in

the price of gas is getting rediculous here in northern california!

i just paid $2.11 for a gallon of regular gas; premium was selling for $2.33 a gallon!

unbelievable!

$1.58/gal reg. unleaded, on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. Ranges are from $1.58-$1.71/gal. Ya'll come on down- the weather is incredibly beautiful- cool (lo 70's), breezy, no rain, lo humidity and no smog. You can see for miles and miles across the Mississippi Sound. People are fishing, boating, gambling, sunning and having a good ole time.

65

The Road to Iraq - 237 Lies

by Satanus in

here is the link to a document made for rep henry waxman.

it documents 237 lies used by bush et al to pave the road to a war w iraq.

just right click on it, then save as, or left click to go there directly.

grows1

In answer to the number of estimated number of bodies in mass graves all over Iraq................ Iraqis uncover thousands in mass graves U.S. commander: Troops to crack down on looters Wednesday, May 14, 2003 Posted: 10:21 PM EDT (0221 GMT) An Iraqi woman on Wednesday mourns at the site of mass graves found in Mahawil. Some 1,500 bodies have been uncovered there so far. Families dig through mass graves to find remains of loved ones in Mawahil, Iraq The new U.S. civil administrator for Iraq. The U.S. is trying to secure control of Iraq's oil industry, but will it succeed? U.S. MILITARY BRIEFING, WEDNESDAY U.S. Lt. Gen. David McKiernan, coalition commander, and Maj. Gen. Buford Blout, 3rd Infantry Division commander ?McKiernan: Mass grave sites being discovered in Iraq are high on the U.S. military's list for security arrangements. ? Blount: Looters in Iraq are not to be shot by troops unless soldiers' lives are endangered. ? McKiernan: A policy is being developed with U.S. civil administrator L. Paul Bremer to establish rules for weapons ownership in Iraq. MAHAWIL, Iraq (CNN) -- The head of an Iraqi forensic team said Wednesday he expects to find as many as 15,000 bodies buried at mass graves about 55 miles (90 kilometers) south of Baghdad. Hundreds of relatives of missing Iraqis gathered at the site in Mahawil, seeking to find out the fate of their loved ones. The forensic team has uncovered 1,500 bodies so far, identifying only a fraction of them. (Gallery: Images from Mahawil, On the Scene: Jane Arraf) The bodies are mostly of Iraqi Shiites who died in an uprising against Saddam Hussein following the 1991 Persian Gulf War, according to Human Rights Watch spokesman Peter Bouckaert and local officials. Bouckaert said the crude means of uncovering the bodies -- with a bulldozer -- was destroying evidence from the burials. He cited the example of an Iraqi identity document, with its number still intact, blowing away in the wind. "This little piece of information could actually have led a family to recover the skeleton of their relative, but because it's blown away from this pile -- as we see stuff blowing around all over the place -- that family probably won't have the answer they seek here today," he said. (Human rights groups' concerns) Touring the site Wednesday, Ahmad Chalabi, head of the opposition Iraqi National Congress, said the mass grave was evidence supporting the U.S.-led military action to remove Saddam from power. Posted on 01/23/2004 9:06:45 AM PST by xzins BAGHDAD -- They were killed in their hospital beds and buried in the hospital flower gardens, some with their arms still wrapped in bandages or IVs still connected. And they were killed on long death marches in northern Iraq--Kurdish women and children, separated from their families and carrying the few household items they could drag with them. Wherever they were killed, many were blindfolded and shot in the forehead. Saddam Hussein's whole country became a killing field. Mass graves "are everywhere," said Sandy Hodgkinson, a U.S. State Department attorney who has been working with Iraq's Human Rights Ministry, the agency in charge of investigating the mass graves. "You follow reports, and they turn up in places you would never suspect." Iraq is littered with bodies stuffed dozens at a time into cemetery plots, bodies shoved over cliffs, tossed in lakes or hidden in farm fields where vegetables still grow, said Saad Sultan, 32, a lawyer and detective with the Human Rights Ministry's mass graves research team. So far, 282 possible mass grave sites have been identified, 55 have been confirmed and 20 have been explored. But nine months after Hussein's fall, the total number of graves is unknown. So, too, is the number buried, though the figure is estimated to be in the hundreds of thousands. Among Kurds alone, for example, there are at least 182,000 people missing, 8,000 of them from one clan, the Barzanis. Source: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0401210319jan21,1,5792396.story In reports emerging six months into the United States occupation of Iraq, a U.S. human rights attorney, Sandra Hodgkinson, reported 300,000 bodies have been reportedly buried in some 260 mass graves in Iraq. "We have found mass graves of women and children, with bullet holes in their heads and we have found mass graves of husbands and fathers out in the desert where they were buried," Hodgkinson said. "We met survivors who crawled out of mass graves after being buried alive. We met with families whose loved ones did not escape," suggesting the graves contain exclusively the bodies of those killed by the regime of Saddam Hussein. Sandra Hodgkinson Sandra Hodgkinson served as the Coalition Provisional Authority's director of human rights in 2003 after the United States' attack against Iraq. An on-line military publication places Hodgkinson in Baghdad with Department of Defense reconstruction and humanitarian assistance planners March 16, 2003, nearly three weeks before US tanks rolled into the city's downtown. The magazine, dcmilitary.com, reports that Hodgkinson worked several years before the war developing plans for human rights investigations in Iraq: "The human rights specialist is from the State Department's Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor. She is also a Navy Reserve judge advocate general officer with the International and Operational Law Unit at the Pentagon. She's worked as a military prosecutor and an instructor in crimes against humanity issues through the International Military Education and Training program. "Under the Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998, defense officials provided some war crimes and crimes against humanity training at the Defense Institute of International Legal Studies in Newport, R.I., for the Iraqi opposition. 'I was the course coordinator and an instructor for that program,' Hodgkinson said, 'which early on, got me working with Iraqi opposition in areas related to crimes against humanity, human rights protection and how to investigate and preserve evidence of these crimes.' "In her civilian capacity, Hodgkinson has participated in the State Department's Future of Iraq Project, and about two years ago, she spoke at a Human Rights and Transitional Justice seminar arranged by the Iraqi National Congress in London. In February she began working with the Defense Department's Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance, deploying first to Kuwait and then to Baghdad on March 16." [1] The following is a web address by A Shia News Agency documenting the Hussein crimes against humanity. Shia Muslims are not know for their love of America and would hardly spout the pro-Bush speil. http://www.shianews.com/hi/articles/politics/0000374.php Here is another by the organization Archeologist for Human Rights documenting the sites to be investigated for more mass graves. http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:1pKwKKeB67gJ:www.afhr.org/download/english.pdf+number+of+bodies+found+in+mass+graves+in+Iraq&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 Human Rights Watch, also not a particularly political organization has articles on line??? Iraq: Mass Graves Still Unprotected (Español) Sites Near Basra Being Tampered With (Basra, May 11, 2003) Coalition forces must immediately secure sites of potential mass graves in order to preserve the evidence necessary for identifying the remains and initiating prosecutions against human rights violators, Human Rights Watch urged today. Background on the Crisis in Iraq ?People are excavating mass graves around Basra at an increasing pace. Unless coalition forces secure these sites and show people that they will initiate a process to answer their questions, a tremendous amount of evidence about Iraq?s bloody past will be destroyed.? Sam Zia-Zarifi Researcher for Human Rights Watch Over the last two weeks, several mass grave sites near Basra have been excavated without prior forensic analysis, making it may make it more difficult or even impossible to accurately identify the remains and to begin proper criminal investigations. Human Rights Watch has directly identified several mass grave sites where bodies have been removed for reburial without any forensic analysis. ?People are excavating mass graves around Basra at an increasing pace,? said Sam Zia-Zarifi, researcher for Human Rights Watch. ?They?re desperate for information about their lost relatives. Unless coalition forces secure these sites and show people that they will initiate a process to answer their questions, a tremendous amount of evidence about Iraq?s bloody past will be destroyed.? On April 20, Human Rights Watch requested assistance from coalition forces in securing one such site west of al-Zubayr near Basra. Despite promises from the Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance (ORHA), which is responsible for such activity, Human Rights Watch has not seen any signs of the site being properly secured or prepared for investigation as of May 6???? This from a Balkan website???? In early June, Paul Bremmer, head of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq, invited members of Bosnia's International Committee for Missing Persons (ICMP) to visit Iraq to determine whether Bosnia's experience with identifying exhumed bodies could be put to use in Iraq. ICMP President James Kimsey and ICMP Chief of Staff Gordon Bacon were quick to offer their services. "It is a tribute to the ICMP and to the government and institutions of Bosnia and Herzegovina that the model developed here is seen as possibly applicable in other parts of the world, and at this time especially in Iraq. . I hope we can show how our experience can bring relief to the suffering and loss now being felt by the people of Iraq," Bacon said in a 16 June press release, shortly before departing for Iraq. The ICMP believes that Iraq has between 250,000 and 300,000 missing persons, almost 10 times more than all of the former Yugoslav countries put together--a situation it says would make identification impossible without Bosnian help. "We understand that they have a difficult situation there, with lists with missing persons more than 15 years old, and I believe that [the ICMP's] DNA testing is the best solution for them," Bacon told TOL upon his return from Iraq in mid-June???. I am not a Bush supporter. Have not voted for him in the past and do not plan to this year. His lies, if they are lies, should be exposed as such. However, if he BELIEVED that the intelligence supplied by various intelligence agencies from around the world was true and a fairly accurate picture of what the Hussein regime had in the way of WMD's, then he is not a liar.After all, Dems and Repubs on intelligences committees in both the House and Senate also believed the reports. Hindsight is a wonderful thing-20/20 vision. I want to read the document 237 lies before I make a judgement on that.

65

The Road to Iraq - 237 Lies

by Satanus in

here is the link to a document made for rep henry waxman.

it documents 237 lies used by bush et al to pave the road to a war w iraq.

just right click on it, then save as, or left click to go there directly.

grows1

What do you call the 300,000+ bodies that have been uncovered in mass graves all over Iraq-suicides??????????

65

The Road to Iraq - 237 Lies

by Satanus in

here is the link to a document made for rep henry waxman.

it documents 237 lies used by bush et al to pave the road to a war w iraq.

just right click on it, then save as, or left click to go there directly.

grows1

I downloaded the file and will study it. Thanks for the info. I do have a few points to make with reference to Iraq not directly relating to the file. 1)Iraq signed a surrender agreement at the end of the 1st Gulf War in which it (Hussein) stated and swore that it (Hussein) would abide by the terms of the agreement or face the consequences. 2)From 1992 until 2003 Iraq violated the terms of the surrender so many times it is impossible to document. At least a dozen UN resolutions were drafted and passed condemning Iraq for their non-cooperation with the UN and various inspectors from different UN agancies and bureau's- ALL of which were specified in the terms of surrender. The very 1st violation of the surrender agreement SHOULD have brought the wrath of the world down around Hussein's head. Instead, all he got were a bunch of meaningless resolutions that he KNEW no one really wanted to support. 3)The food for oil program administered by the UN during the embargo was fraught with corruption- many European nations violated the conditions of the embargo and had secret deals with Hussein that made "leader" of various European countries, most notably France, Germany and many UN officials families and friends, a LOT of money on the side and gave Hussein access to weapons parts that were clear violations of the terms of surrender-parts that were found in abundance after the Hussein regime fell in this war. Some of these parts were from North Korea- nuclear plant assembly material that SHOULD NEVER HAVE gotten to Hussein during the embargo. 4) Every member state of the UN believed that Hussein had WMD's and was prepared to use them- he had already demonstrated the propensity to use them in the past and no one doubted for a minute that he would do so again if the right circumstances presented itself. His UNWILLINGNESS to adhere to the inspections agreed to in the terms of surrender could only lead EVERYONE to believe that he was producing WMD's, he was after all, getting the stuff that he needed to produce them thru the "back door". 5)The Iraqi people suffered greatly during the embargo- NOT because Iraq couldn't have gotten what he needed to feed, clothe, and provide medical care for them but because Hussein was incredibly corrupt and CHOSE to steal everything that he possibly could, he and his disgusting family and hordes of Bathists. Everyone in the international community knew what was going on but as long as they made tons of money (I call it blood money) illegally no one really wanted to do anything about it except pass worthless condemnations in the UN that no one really wanted to enforce. It wasn't their families suffering, after all. 6) Iran, Syria, Libya and Iraq have been aiding and abetting terrorism against the west for years, funding and providing training sites for the most radical of Islamists. They HAVE BEEN WAGING WAR against the west thru their terrorist friends and allies since the 60's. If you are attacked by another country you strike back- and those countries KNOW THIS. But if you are attacked by an amalgam of loosely federated terrorist groups- who do you strike back against?????? Their funders? Their abettors? Not hardly!!!!The west is essentially gutless and is UNWILLING to confront the Islamic terrorist sponsoring states because they are so heavily dependant on oil and have become home to large populations of Muslims themselves. They do NOT want to rock the boat. They truly don't care if a couple of thousand people get killed as long as the oil continues to flow and some people continue to make a lot of money. 7) Europe will become a Muslim continent by the 22nd century-because they are increasing dependendent on Muslim immigrants to support their welfare states social programs- Europeans no longer reproduce themselves at a rate that will replace their own populations. They MUST import 3rd world immigrants,i.e., Muslims, to do the work and pay the tab for their cradle to grave benefits. Somebody has to pay for all of those things. Muslims believe that kids are a gift from god (as opposed to westerners, who see kids as a burden) and have large families- much larger than the typical western European or American. So while many, many Muslim babies get born in Europe(becoming the citizens of the immigrants family) few native Europeans are being born.

14

Cuban Missile Crisis = How did you feel if you were alive at the time?

by AlanB in

i've just watched a program on tv about the cuban missile crisis.. i just wondered how the average jw at the time felt while this was happenning?

or was the 1975 date firmly set by then?.

interesting aside, i must speak to my dad about this, ask him how he felt as he was 'out' at the time and did not come back until a few years later, i wonder how he felt having being brought up in it?

grows1

Kennedy was extremely arrogant- the USA had dozens of nukes sitting on the Russian border in Turkey and Western Europe but he didn't want any in Cuba- the USA's back yard? Sort of a two faced hypocritical policy don't you think? Yes, I was alive- the whole period during the late 50's and all thru the 60's were tense and sometimes frightening.I thought Kennedy was an idiot then and still do. He sent people into Cuba to be killed and tortured in the Bay of Pigs invasion, refused to acknowledge that it was his plan and let the survivors languish in prision so that he didn't have to tell the world that he sent people in there to be slaughtered in an ill fated attempt to overthrow Castro. The majority of people WANTED Castro in power in Cuba. Almost all of those who didn't want to live under communism had left or were leaving to come to the USA. The rest supported Castro because they thought that communism would improve their lot.

6

BLOOD -- WTS Questions and Sound Answers 1

by Marvin Shilmer in

*** w69 6/1 327 godly respect for life and blood *** .

"if a doctor were to tell you to abstain from alcohol, would that mean simply that you should not take it through your mouth but that you could transfuse it directly into your veins?

if a doctor told a patient to abstain from alcohol then that patient should avoid unhealthy alcohol consumption whether by mouth or any other means.

grows1

Gee, I don't see anything in there that says it's OK to take cow's blood into your veins, do you???????? In fact it just says BLOOD-no qualifier. Now Jehovah in His infinite wisdom could have surely seen the day that humans would be converting cow's blood for human use and stipulated NO HUMAN BLOOD but cow's blood is OK. But He didn't. So why is it ok to get tranfused with cow's blood now and not humans when the scriptures say that NO BLOOD could be used by WTBTS interpertation?????

14

Media Bias?????

by Yerusalyim in

interesting ap stories and their headlines yesterday.

notice that in the story on kerry, the headline is, "kerry calls for deeper tax cuts for the middle class" in the article i've highlighted the real news of that story.

which is that he said the gop was the most crooked lying group he's ever seen.

grows1

Gopher- I'm sorry that you will have to contend with cleaning up the disgusting mess that the previous generations have made for you. Because your generation and your children will be incredibly burdened by the financial burdens that MY generation is getting ready to pawn off on you and yours- social security, the national debt, and paying for all of the trade deficits that will eventually be demanded to be paid. We have ensured your slavery for generations to come once the bills all come due. And there will be a reckoning day. As for trade protectionism- for the first 120 years this country had stiff trade barriers, on purpose. The fledgling USA gov didn't want foreign competition for newly emerging industries and for our new growing nation. And during that 120 years we became the most powerful manufacturing nation the earth had ever seen. Because we DID have stiff import taxes ( those were the ONLY taxes allowed by our gov until 1913-those taxes were what our gov used to conduct itself with )EVERYTHING that was used here almost had to be made here. Wages were higher than anywhere else in the world and there were jobs for everyone who wanted jobs. In the 1940's the USA began lowering the tarriffs and during the early 50's decided to almost eliminate trade tarriffs so that imports from war devastated countries could help their economies. As these countries recovered they heavily and successfully lobbied to KEEP trade barriers down. We are now at a point that we no longer manufacture anything and Greenspan acknowledged this in 2001 when he was testifying before the senate. He matter of factly stated that we are now a service economy and no longer produce much anything except farm products. What he really meant to say was that we are now a servant (peon) enonomy. And all of the big LORDS and KINGS are sitting up there in the Congress and WH making sure that their incredible incomes, dividends, and stocks keep rolling on overseas while we have to fight over the few well paying jobs left. Think I'm off the track. G.W.Bush just last week wanted to reclassify hamburger flippers to heavy industry occupations so that things wouldn't continus to look so bad. Also NASDAQ is more than 90% NON manfacturing companies-web based and paper companies; NASDAQ the manufacturing thermometer for this country for I can't remember how long.

14

Media Bias?????

by Yerusalyim in

interesting ap stories and their headlines yesterday.

notice that in the story on kerry, the headline is, "kerry calls for deeper tax cuts for the middle class" in the article i've highlighted the real news of that story.

which is that he said the gop was the most crooked lying group he's ever seen.

grows1

Considering that Kerry has NEVER had a real job in his entire life,VIGOROUSLY supported and signed the NAFTA, WTO, GATT treaties AND supported the most favored nation status for Red China AND that he has taken more lobbysts money than ANY other senator and sells himself to the highest bidder, like the whoring political prostitute he is, I'd say that he has a lot of nerve trying to portray himself as a friend of labor. But not to worry, the duplicitous labor union big wig, who will never have to work another day in their whoring lives, are backing him 100%. They don't give a crap either if no one in this country ever works again either- their salaries are safe as union big wigs. American laborers have been sold out by BOTH political parties and don't seem to really care- they keep voting for the same old traitors of both parties. What workers don't realize is that both Dems and Repubs pols get most of their income from STOCKS and DIVIDENDS in companies that have moved lock, stock and barrell overseas, thereby maximizing profits(money for them) and minimizing cost(our use to be good wages that are now pennies in foreign lands). Do any of you really think that people and politicans like Kerry and Bush give a rats a.. if any of you ever have a good job ever again????? The lower your wages, the MORE MONEY THEY MAKE!!!! That is also why the power brokers in BOTH parties want the illegal immigrant flood over the border INTO this country to continue- these people take jobs and KEEP wages artifically low, not to mention the fact that they continue to vote in our elections,wholesale, thereby ensuring that we have an open border policy. We have been had and it is our own fault- we continue to vote for these whores.

20

Spoke my mind ...

by Vivamus in

well now, the lesson i learn today is that it feels *good* to speak your mind.

i entered in a battle of will and principles with a person who has none of those, and i came out feeling victorious.

no matter the consequences, no matter the financial loss, self-respect and the moral high ground have been saved for me.

grows1

Apparently I am the only one here who differs with you. I agree with your dad. It IS his money.How he chooses to use it is HIS business and his business alone. Where do you get off telling him what he should do with his hard earned dollars???? Don't want to pay him interest-fine go to any bank and get a loan from them. Bet you'll pay more than 10% interest. And I'll also bet they'll be a LOT more demanding in how you keep to your promise to repay them. I charged my youngest son interest to teach him something- NOTHING in life is free. I also set up a payment schedule and demanded payment when payment was due so that I could instill in him the FINANCIAL discipline he would need to make it in a commercial world where your failure to keep your word will cost you money-higher interest. I put ALL of the money in the bank for him. When he finished repaying the money I gave it ALL back, including the interest. He learned valuable lessons about honor, credit and committment. Maybe your father was trying to teach you the same. Regardless of the reasons why he did what he did I back him 100%. You are self centered, selfish and I wouldn't give you a dime if you were my daughter.