Posts by Fisherman

90

The Org is terrified of apostates

by SecretSlaveClass in

i knew apostasy was a serious concern for the org, but until i watched this video, i had no idea how afraid they actually were.

all this guy wants is to do is not turn in his fs hours and immediately they (elders) set about drilling him about who are what influenced his decision, as if he was incapable of making his own (which as the elders confirm, in the org is highly discouraged).

they are convinced he has been communicating with apostates or visiting apostate web sites.

Fisherman

I knew apostasy was a serious concern for the Org

Do you really think that the wts is concerned about anything at all? I doubt it. First of all the wts believes that God is leading them and backing them up.

When things are good and there is growth, it means the work is is being blessed. When there is persecution or apostasy, it means that Satan is busy and the end is getting closer. But whatever the case, the wts believes that God is handling it. So, they are not concerned at all; they do what they can and leave in God's hands.

The old charismatic gb were loved, and respected by their old, non anointed, jw contemporaries, and all jws. The new generation gb (not charismatic) is challenging for some JW. --Nevertheless all JW believe that God is leading the org.

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Fisherman

uncantone: I read your posts. I do not respond to every post, but I consider anything that I think has any merit. I think that you contribute something of substance.

Regarding your quotation about "mouthpiece," I am not sure what the author wanted the reader to understand when reading that. I think that JW concluded that God communicated with FDS in some special, exclusive way not privy to common JW, a channel of HS direct communication.

The WTS still proclaims that it is being led by HS. The excerpt from the 6/15 wt mag, if you read it, still claims that God is the source of the spiritual food they publish (compare De 8:3"..from God's mouth") in other words, they still make the same claim (mouthpiece.) However, the wts has made public that there is nothing special about the HS that God gives the FDS, it is the same HS experienced by all JW. JW understand and believe it.

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Fisherman

MS, I think that your grammar, punctuation, and mastery of the written English language is impeccable.

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Fisherman

The wts basically teaches that the acid test for loyalty is whether or not a person speaks apostate lies opposite to the healthful teaching. It is not based upon a litmus question. Albeit, any doubts about what GJ said, the 6/15 wt mag that I quoted from in my previous post says it in writing-"You have it in writing." "Why go beyond the things written?" In that article from the GB, it states, that God is the source of JW "spiritual food" JW believe that. But if a single PH question should be used upon a JW, it would be about the clear convincing evidence of God's HS exclusively in the JW as I have explained in my previous post. Jesus said to the Jews, the nation of Israel, that God had been using exclusively: "The Kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation producing its fruits."

Evidence: Pentecost (Jewish festival of first fruits)

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Fisherman

debunked

Not debunked

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Fisherman

In particular aspects they do claim that God uses his Holy Spirit exclusively and in particular they claim this in regards to the FDS as being the only ones whom Jesus appointed and only they are directed by HS in that role. What Jackson did explain was that the HS can operate in different ways, one of those being through the FDS to provide spiritual food and the other through providing help and comfort to members in the congregation. Nothing in his speech limited the workings of God's HS to these two areas. Jackson did not discuss other ways in which God's HS functions. Therefore there was no 'exlusivity' in his discussion whereas you suggest that there was.

JW teach that persons outside God's Organization, are blinded by Satan ( no HS there). No bother to preach if JW believed that persons outside JW could get HS. Any HS outside God's earthly organization enlightens and directs a person to flee to God's Kingdom ("No one comes to me unless the Father draws him," "We are God's fellow workers,". "He instructs sinners in the way," " I watered........God keeps making in grow." Again, God's HS is exclusive to JW although God uses his HS to help people find JW.

I do not know for a fact what GJ meant, neither do you, only he does. What I do know for a fact is that in response to the question about viewing himself as a "spokesman", instead of explaining that the GB are not God's spokesmen, as for example, the prophets of old were ( "This is what Jehovah has said,." ) he tried to clarify that HS is how God directs people (communicates) today and that direction is through the FDS: "Jehovah has supplied an abundance of wholesome spiritual food through books, magazines, videos, and audio recordings."-- w10 6/15 He also tried to clarify that not only the FDS is used by God, other JWS too.

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Fisherman

Job

Jews believe that Job is allegory. WT teaches that Job was a real person, a contemporary of Moses, from Arabia, a descendant of Abraham--but not of the 12 tribes. ( see Topic "Job" Insight Book and All Scriptures Inspired and Beneficial WTS.) If Job was a fictional character, then God did not actually use him.

If Job was a real person, then he was an exception of someone that God used who was not a Jew prior to "Pentecost". The history of Job took place before God appointed Moses as his Messiah and before Israel accepted the Law covenant (according to WTS). Interestingly, God used Moses, a Jew, to write the book bearing Job's name, and people benefit because of Moses' work, not Job's.

Also, although Job's conduct and integrity must have given God much pleasure, God did not use Job or descendants as his "spokepersons". Prior to "Pentecost," God used the Jews exclusively.

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Fisherman

and I don't believe they make this claim as his HS works in many ways in fulfilling his will.

Believe it. Prior to Pentecost, God used the Jews exclusively. Pouring his HS on non Jews was proof that God was using the nations. I do not want to get into a discussion about how God uses his Holy Spirit as taught by the WTS.). I have stated that JW proclaim that God uses (Holy Spirit) them EXCLUSIVELY . Should I say more?

Being God's spokesperson is very different to providing spiritual food........."

Your views differ from JW teachings

it is not a given therefore the claim by the GB that there will be an FDS that Jesus rewards is pre-emptying Jesus decision.

Given WTS teachings. You disagree You know the JW website if you want more info.

Tangent.

It is not about what you believe. It is about what GJ said. He said that being God's spokesman ( in terms of being used by God) means not only being FDS but also OTHERS acting with HS IN THE CONGREGATION . You believe different, ok.

JW do not teach that there is a spokesman, sort of speak, as you have described. Anyway JW teachings are in print. GJ did not mean that JW teach that JW are the spokesman you describe. In terms of spokesman, he explained that other JW are used by God besides the FDS. That is what he meant. In terms of him being FDS, he did not deny it, but said that they were trying to fufill the role. That is it.

Make no mistake about it, JW proclaim that they are the only people on earth that God uses to do his work. Of course, God uses his HS to accomplish his will as he chooses, but since God's HS is how God works and since JW are the only people on earth doing his work(JW teaching,) God ONLY gives his Holy Spirit to JW to do his work. It is all in print. I do not want to go off in a tangent about JW teaching.

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Fisherman

Also, how does one speak with God's holy spirit and why is this limited to those within the JW congregations?

JW proclaim that they are the only people God is using.

Fisherman could you show me the last publication where they claim that they are God's spokespeople?

That was the question GJ was asked, posted in MS blog. That specific word was used by the person asking the question and GJ responded in terms of that word. Although the lit may not use the exact word spokepersons, it does use the word "spiritual food." and God's Holy Spirit.

As for Jesus making the decision as to whether the FDS has been faithful or not, the FDS has already made this decision for him as a given.

No they have not. GJ made that clear when he said trying to fulfill that role.

<<So, what can we conclude? When Jesus comes to destroy the wicked during the great tribulation, HE WILL FIND that the faithful slave has been loyally giving out spiritual food at the right time to the domestics. Jesus will then be happy to appoint that slave over all his belongings. Those who make up the faithful slave will get this appointment when they receive their reward in heaven and become rulers along with Christ.>>

The related Bible verses state that there WILL BE a FDS that Jesus rewards. Before the reward, the related FDS has the duty of providing spiritual food. Since God is the source of the spiritual food they give out, FDS must have proof from God that they are his appointees and not self anointed.

You are going off on a tangent about what I posted. You know what JW believe and publish. WT lit proclaims that JW make up the OS, GC, FDS, LF. WT literature proclaims that God gives JW his Holy Spirit exclusively to carry out His work. WT proclaims that JW are the ONLY people on earth that God "uses" during these "last days."

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Fisherman

A person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "Yes!" now can say something completely deflating and with the authority of a sitting Governing Body member.

According to your article, the man was not asked if he was "the faithful and discreet slave." He was asked: "...do you see yourselves as Jehovah God's spokespeople." He responded (clarifying that the FDS are not God's only spokespeople) that others too in the congregation could act and speak with God's Holy Spirit. He meant that God uses other JW (exclusively) besides the GB.

Regarding his comments about his role as the FDS, keep in mind what Jesus stated: "Who is the faithful and discreet slave...?" GJ did not deny that the GB is trying to fulfill that role. How clearer yes do you want it?

The question you posed brings to mind when Billy Graham pat himself on the back, and commended himself on TV, saying to himself out-loud: "Well done Faithful Steward!"

Will the JW FDS , individually or collectively, prove to be the "faithful and discreet slave" that Jesus was referring to in the related scriptures? That is for Jesus to decide.

I do not see GJ shrinking back in his response to the question that he was asked.