Posts by Fisherman

70

Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????

by DwainBowman in

back in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.

dose anyone else remember this?

i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!

Fisherman

What's surprising is that Russell pulled it out from previous Adventist preachers, then Franz used it 1943 and then again in the late 1960's , what balls ! but I guess that's part of being a WTS. head in pandering to the public's ignorance

Fink you are just repeating yourself. I have already posted with an example that the 6000 years teaching is logical. IT makes sense to conclude that 6000 years after the creation of man would start the beginning of the milenium and that still makes sense now. WT dating methods are also logical and have basis. People with other theories can disagree with their own theories but WT dating methods are not outlandish.

To remain in intellectually honest one can not make such a chronological dating from the bible or any archaeological evidence

Says you Fink. The WT has published their reasons and basis for WT dating. That is their position. You do not have to agree or feel that they are honest.

He didn't really have a strong understanding of the bible from a academic theological perspective..

You believe that theological academic education is essential to understand the Bible message. JW disagree and I disagree. Mathew 11:25; Luke 8:10 That is our position

If he was so intelligent why did he interpret an ancient Hebraic dietary law into one that isn't associated with the human diet ?

Your question is rhetorical. You are actually stating an opinion.

Fink, you post your remarks and your feelings about WT doctrine but tat does not invalidate them, and neither have you invalidated WT dating or doctrines with your theories about them. But as you admit, that is another topic and I might be lured into such a discussion at another time another thread. And you have not invalidated FF intelligence with your remarks about him. It is a pointless discussion. Look at the points I showed about WT growth. Remarkable leadership - FF for example. What have you got to show?

70

Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????

by DwainBowman in

back in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.

dose anyone else remember this?

i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!

Fisherman

But to comment a topic yourself and then respond with "I am not mentally inclined right now to discuss it" implies that I raised the topic. I didn't; You did

Steve, I did not start the Topic of blood on this thread. Fink did.. Blood was an off point Fink used to discredit FF. I did not mean to imply you staeted the discussion on blood knowing full well that Fink started it. And my reponse to the blood part of Fink's post is qualified by my refering to discussing blood on this thread as Marvin Shilmer Topic.

But in general, gallons of blood are never shoved down a patient's throat but instead are intravenously administered. But I guess you knew that, huh?

Steve it was just a figure of speech to illustrate forcing a BT on a JW who does not want it because he believes that a BT is the same as eating or consuming blood. In that sense they are shoving it down a jw throat when he does not want a BT.

70

Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????

by DwainBowman in

back in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.

dose anyone else remember this?

i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!

Fisherman

Do you know how quickly people die when they suffer traumatic blood loss as in vehicle accidents and injuries at work or home?

Of course I know.

That is another topic steve, and I am not mentally inclined right now to discuss it. Perhaps another time another thread. But I already posted in another thread that a person must be prepared to die if they refuse BT. Albeit, I would still want the freedom to choose what treatment I want for my body and not have gallons of blood shoved down my throat if that is not what I want.

70

Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????

by DwainBowman in

back in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.

dose anyone else remember this?

i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!

Fisherman

I do not deny that either man was an accomplished speaker and could give a talk from memory.

So why didn't you say that from the very beginning in response to what I posted? But instead you challenged what I said and I after a showed you that what I said was correct, you agree with me and and then get on a different horse and challenge me on another point. Case closed.

I have already formed an opinion about the man.I know that no one could give me more information than I what I already have.

These were the charismatic men of an era of JW history. JW leaders today are respected because they are JW leaders but they are not viewed with the same awe and esteem sort of speak as those charismatic men were back then.

70

Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????

by DwainBowman in

back in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.

dose anyone else remember this?

i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!

Fisherman

I guess he forgot about his old lies from the past

Fink, the 6000 year teaching is very logical. It makes sense. (Problem is that it did not realize lol) The teaching is not outlandish vision of FF. Jews for example have the same teaching to mark the Messianic era but use different reference dates.

This guy was a crook and con man portraying himself to be a academically trained bible scholar but was just a idealistic amateur who took on the position of one of the leading writers for the WTS.

I disagree. My whole perspective understanding of the Bible would not have been so enriched if not for the WT writers such as FF. And that is why I have no problem understanding Rashi in Jewish terms and Christendoms teachings thinking in their terms and that is why I also have the mental grasp that I have of the Bible in perspective not just a one side view. Now about what he is being accused of relating to academic claims, I do not know and in all justice first his academic claims (whatever people say they are ) must be establsihed and then invalidated. I have not seen that, only accustaion and inconcluive evidence. And this site is not the proper impartial arbitrator or Forum adjudicate that he amde any false claims about hi academic credentials.

He was also mainly responsible of creating the no blood doctrine which has killed thousands and still kills people to day ,

I don't know about that. But until recently when they had more effective screening methods for blood a lot of people got infected from bad blood. IT is also true that a lot of people were cured with the use of BT. I know of examples for both cases and it is also fair to say that lives were saved that would otherwise have been lost had they accepted blood. Whatever the case, it is not so outlandish not to be so blood happy,;just look at how popular bloodless medicine has become. I do not see however how medical risks would bring any comfort to someone who lost a loved one as result of not accepting blood. I could understand their outrage But that is a Marvin Shilmer topic. But you have have not shown that FF is responsible for the deaths of thousands as you assert by saying that he is mainly responsible.

FF was remarkable and brilliant in his ambit of understanding of the Bible, his memory, his intelligence and in his success in expanding JW worlwide to millions, financial grwoth of the org, triumphant legal victories, etc. That aint easy.

70

Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????

by DwainBowman in

back in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.

dose anyone else remember this?

i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!

Fisherman

He dressed in an outlandish manner

I never saw that. Seemed to me that he blended with everybody else. At least I do not remember noticing. And that was never pointed out to me. Maybe in his much younger years or while he was traveling if that was the case,

70

Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????

by DwainBowman in

back in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.

dose anyone else remember this?

i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!

Fisherman

He (Franz) did not use notes.

He did not uses notes, or rather, he did not need them for his talks

Spark, you only quoted part of what said. I explained the part that you quoted with the rest of my statement. BA also claims that she saw BF give a talk at the assembly without notes and that shows that he could and that he did.

The photos that you posted show BF reading something at an Assembly but it does not establish that he was referring to his notes. At an assembly, speakers are sometimes required to read something to the audience word for word. He may have been doing that or he may have been reading from his notes. But BA and myself have already stated what we claim is case, and that is, that FF could give a talk without notes even at an assembly.

These are no myths. He was not an ordinary man. He was a brilliant remarkable man, yet he had his shortcomings and failures like everybody else. I honor and respect him -but that is just me.

70

Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????

by DwainBowman in

back in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.

dose anyone else remember this?

i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!

Fisherman

Just because you didn't see him doesn't mean that he didn't

Spark, I never said that he did not use notes. I only said that I never saw him use them. I also qualified my statement : or he would just give any talk without any notes even at the assembly.

That is what I observed, what I saw- not what I heard from others- and I saw him up close give more talks than most JW. I did not realize this on my own, it was pointed out to me and then I took noticed when he would go up to the platform with just the Bible. I also saw him read from the song book but that does not mean that he could not sing the songs without reading them. I never heard that he was a Savant or had photographic memory but I I did see him give a lot of LONG talks without notes. So the point is that: He could and he did give talks without notes and I saw what I saw.

Spark, the photos you posted do not establish that BK was reading from his notes. He could have been reading some letter for example or some announcement -or maybe as you imply,his notes. I do not know but they they not seem like notes to me. Seems to me as if he is reading something ,not referring to his notes.

70

Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????

by DwainBowman in

back in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.

dose anyone else remember this?

i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!

Fisherman

gay saunas

That is a misrepresentation. Like many others in the BH, he went to the sauna there and only there. But that does not make him gay as neither did anyone else who went make them gay either because they went. (I dont remember if the sis had their own sauna back then) Bethel had a zero tolerance for sex sins.If you got into any trouble going down to 42 second street or any other problem that you got tangled up with, you would get kicked out -no exceptions, even FF.

FF was straight as an arrow. He was counting on the end coming at any time during his lifetime and he receiving his reward. Lot of the old timers stayed single too but they were not gay either. FF would communicate and interact but seemed to me he was detached from everything, but maybe I felt that way because of my age.

70

Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????

by DwainBowman in

back in my teen years this story swept through jw land, that according to, the guinness book of records , freddy franz, was listed as one of the seven, most intelligent , men in the world.

dose anyone else remember this?

i remember trying to look it up, but never found anything in print, and ii point that out once or twice , and was told a co, had told about it, and he wouldn't lie!

Fisherman

Never read that about FF in the "MBR." But it is true that he spoke many languages. I remember that he went to the Spanish KH -besides his fluency in other languages. It is also true that he could quote much of the Bible (Psalms for example) by memory. He did not uses notes, or rather, he did not need them for his talks but neither did NHK. Never once did I see NHK refer to his notes, or he would just give any talk without any notes even at the assembly.

As far as the MBR, one day while I was visiting Costco, I looked at the MBR at their book section. What I read in the book was that JW had the record for receiving the tiniest blood transfusion in the world consisting of only blood fractions. I figured it out that the authors were just making fun. They also said something about the "truth book" being the 2nd most published in the world but it was also in jest.

But the farther away from HQ the more the JW would deviate from standard. Close to HQ , the man was respected but any glorifying remarks about him to others in the presence of an elder, etc, would get a rebuke as a reply. I think that he was a brilliant man; much of the WT ground works for understanding the Bible was his thinking, I was told, but so was 1975, and the end 6000 thousand year after Adam teaching. I cannot see the MBR saying something about him though without jest, so if they mentioned him as one of the most intelligent, they probably qualified that with some joke -but you read it and you know what you read.