Fisherman

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Posts by Fisherman

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  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

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  Fisherman

  Be convinced. UC

  UC, I have posted previously that JW have evidence that trumps whether or not the gt comes within the expected generation ,however, TD very keenly established that this discussion is not about personal belief but about whether JW theology on the gc is academically and mathematically valid given wt interpretation of the "Olivette" and how wt applies it to 1914. IT is from that position that I am responding to your post and others.

  Case in point: Jehovah's angel communicates with you . That trumps everything but it does not explain whether the wt interpretation of 1914, generation, etc is academically and mathematically correct. JW are convinced "wt" is God's org, HS is behind the preaching work, the meetings, the publications, the assemblies, , the discipline...

  So for a JW that has the trumping evidence, even though they cannot understand why wt teachings about the generation, etc do not seem to add up, it is moot because the remarkable evidence that they have trumps. But this discussion ain't about that, IT is about the correctness of wt theology on generation in connection with 1914 and whether the integrated wt gc teaching t limits generation to a point that it invalidates wt theology on 1914.

  What I am trying to show is whether or not wt theology falls apart if the gt does not come within the lifespan of people born circa 1935.
  
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  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

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  Fisherman

  ".........heaven and earth will pass away but my words will by no means pass away......" JC
  

  wt has never professed to be inspired although they assert to be directed by God's HS exclusively;I agree. I follow wt logic and Bible interpretation and I agree with wt theology. It fits. It appears that Judge Rutherford believed that the gc of 1935 should expect life not death from old age concurrently while pointing out the distinction between the anointed and the gc but maybe not. http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001363

  WT had expectations in 1914 and in 1925 and so on. It is in writing as UC points out, so they do not deny it. AS I see it, non anointed are modern day OS, a "great crowd of other sheep", as wt puts it. The the term gc is only a term used to describe and distinguish from anointed such that hope to be the gc of Rev when the gt comes within the limit of generation (jc meaning). The posted wt link points to information that states that in 1935 an in-gathering of the gc began although prior to 1935 some had the paradise earth desire. Albeit, given what Jesus meant by generation, the in-gathering of the gc should not exceed its "life expectancy"
  

  Given wt theology, in terms of time span, what did Jesus mean when he referred to the generation of 1914? It seems that wt did not know and does not know for sure, but what is evident is that anointed that saw the "sign "have died

  ( gone to heaven) and  overlappers are alive on earth. Wt current anointed overlap generation definition although disappointing is academically valid, not only because the overlap doctrine is valid but also because those of the gc born circa1935 have not passed away ( if their life span governs generation length as TD points out)  .
  
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  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

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  Fisherman

  My father lived beyond the life expectancy......doesn't sound like much of an opportunity. maybe it would have been better to say he had a slim chance of it....... -UC

  I see your point.
  

  
  
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  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

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  2. 
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  Fisherman

  not a few wheezers in wheelchairs,

  Given: WT theology
  

  Right, the gc is not only made up of 1935ers but of a multitude of younger members too that came in after 1935 and the ingathering continues, Why shouldn't such destined to be elderly not have an opportunity to survive the gt?
  
• 
  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Fisherman

  *** w08 1/15 p. 23 par. 14 Counted Worthy to Receive a Kingdom ***
  Hence, after 1935 the thrust of the preaching work turned to the gathering of “a great crowd,” those whom the apostle John saw in vision and who would survive “the great tribulation.”—Rev. 7:9, 10, 14.
  
  

  *** w15 1/15 p. 17 par. 18 Why We Observe the Lord’s Evening Meal ***
  On the other hand, if you are part of the “great crowd” of “other sheep,” God has given you the earthly hope.
  
  IT seems that some individuals that were part of the great crowd of other sheep that died of old age and other causes are obviously not part of the great crowd that survives the great tribulation. For argument sake lets say that in 1935 there were some that could live through the gt and were 15 years old at the time 1935-15=1920. Now, here we are 2017, those sheep are 97 years old!.

  ON the other hand, I must admit that the great crowd of 1935 must at the very least have had the opportunity to live long enough otherwise if they were destined to die of old age, they never had a chance to be part of the surviving great crowd. And that means that they never were part of the great crowd to begin with. But as long as there was a chance for them to be part of the great crowd that ultimately lives through the gt no matter how old -it is valid.
  
• 
  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

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  Fisherman

  If you have any comments on this quote, I'm interested in hearing them.

  AS you see it, a Siamese twin great crowd connected to the anointed, that survives the great tribulation, should not die of old age beforehand, also mathematically speaking, the clock starts ticking sort of speak as soon as the gc (who's lifespan is also integrated with the "generation of 1914" wt theology, regardless of the meaning of generation)is identified.

  ==============================================================
  

  Since the gc is the only entity on earth that survives the gc (All GC are OS but not all OS are great crowd because a dead OS is not part of the great crowd.) It is axiomatic that the gc cannot die of old age(assuming it exists as a class before the gt) but credit to you for highlighting this no so obvious axiom before the forum.

  Seems that in 1935 the wt had erroneously used the term gc instead of os believing in a cut-and-dried generation in connection with non anointed Christians beliving that all OS would make up the GC in terms of lenghth of generation, see below:

  w15 2/15 p. 32 “A Very Precious Season” ***
  The year 1935 marked a dramatic change that affected future Memorial observances, for the meaning of the “great multitude” (KJ), or “great crowd,” of Revelation 7:9 was clarified. Jehovah’s servants had viewed this group as consecrated Christians.....

  In other words, a new interpretation of the identity of the great crowd: They were not anointed christians, but a separate entity that survives the great tribulation. And wt is right about that in terms of consistency. Seems that they were not right about concluding that all those other sheep christians would make up the surving great crowd if they were destined die of old age. Nevertheless,such had a different hope than the annointed -paradise earth. AS time passed they hoped that everything would converge someday within the generation of 1914, they expected it would happen within the lifespan of 1914 ers. Therefore hoping to be part of the great crowd must not only mean surving because of conduct but also age.
  

  
  

  
  
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  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Fisherman

  In John 6 Jesus said to partake is essential to get everlasting life

  Prologos, that is another topic. I am not saying that it is not related but I am only focusing TD commentary on the great crowd.

  It is twisting the scriptures to say the great crowd survives , or exists as an entity before the great tribulation.
  

  I understand what you are saying but what the wt concludes seems logical when they reason that in order to come out of the gt or survive they must exist as a gc beforehand. The wt I quoted from above admits they were wrong about the gc prior to 1935.
  
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  19

  900000 US$ donations from Brother Nelson (aka Prince)

  by sp74bb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  2005 - $20,000 for chanhassen jevovah witnes y st louis jehovah witness2006 - $130,000 for jehovah witness kingdom hall2007 - $800,000 for peccole ranch lakes kingdom hall fund.

  the amounts of his donations has been posted in other forums with copies of the public tax filings of his love 4 one another foundation..

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  Fisherman

  Yes...it was earned

  Correct.
  

  ..all the while claiming to be one of Jehovah's Witness

  From JW rules, GB appointees are responsible for "judging" JW -not you. But it was his money.
  
• 
  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fisherman

  Because of the time constraint inherent in the concept, Fisherman.  -TD
  

  
  

  *** w15 2/15 p. 32 “A Very Precious Season” ***
  The year 1935 marked a dramatic change that affected future Memorial observances, for the meaning of the “great multitude” (KJ), or “great crowd,” of Revelation 7:9 was clarified. Until then, Jehovah’s servants had viewed this group as consecrated Christians who were less zealous. Now this vast throng was identified as faithful worshippers who hope to live on a paradise earth......
  

  JW have never claimed to be infaliible and have adimitted in writting that their gt expectations have been off date but not doctrinally wrong -but there still does not appear to be any gaping hole in wt theology of a great crowd surviving the gt and they continue to teach the same as the above quoted wt shows.
  
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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

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  Fisherman

  There's something deeply mysterious at the heart of existence.

  WOW!!, Enjoyed that expression. Thanks sbf. You are a profound poster.