Posts by Fisherman

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

Fisherman

Such was not my conclusion at all. My illustration to Myelaine was only intended to show how basic assumptions affect legal interpretation. Which is more valuable; life or property? If life is more valuable than property, then laws whose purpose is to protect property must, of necessity be limited by that assumption. TD

Are you saying then that since blood is sacred because blood represent s life, then life is axiomatically more valuable than the blood representing it? If that is what your are saying then you are incorrect because blood is sacred to God not because it is merely an object (property sort of speak) representing life but because to God blood specifically represents the life of the creature from where the blood came from.There is no license stated in the OT or the NT that automatically grants the right to violate "God's law on blood" except for your application of Jesus' interpretation of what is lawful on the Sabbath, and it appears that, hence, you feel that it is ok (or ou) to consume blood in an attempt to be healed or to be cured.

But there is also an axiomatic difference(big) between blood- a mere object except to God- and human life or the life of a child that could possibly be saved ("prolonged") with an attempt using blood. "Each person must decide for themselves whether to obey God's Law on Blood." JW stand firm "mechanically" on their position on blood ( on idolatry too.) JW believe that consuming blood is a sin and that there is nothing stated or implied in the Bible that grants the license to eat or consume blood.

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

Fisherman

Pointing out that Jehovah's Witnesses are no different than anybody else in this respect is a reiteration of the obvious. TD

That is not what I did. Kindly, read below.

Therefore, you conclude that in a survival situation jw should be required to consume blood same as a Jew is required to eat to save his life over keeping kosher? WT does not view it like that.

compare

14 "What if a doctor tells us that we will die if we do not have a blood transfusion? Each person must decide whether to obey God’s law on blood. Christians deeply respect God’s gift of life, and we will look for alternative treatments to keep living; but we will not accept a blood transfusion."

I was pointing out the difference that Judaism requires that a Jew eat non kosher to save his life and the wt teaches that each person must decide whether to obey God's law on blood.

Your quote from the JW website is a good illustration of the mechanical application of law of which I spoke.

Can you explain what do you mean by "mechanical" application of the Law.

Do you believe that Jesus of the Bible broke the Sabbath? Why or why not?

Thank you for your clarification so as not to confuse with "Heysus" the Spanish kid who broke into the house in your story on the Sabbath.

All kidding aside, I see your point: Assuming that receiving a blood transfusion violates God's Law, God must allow laws to be broken same as Jesus used God's Holy Spirit to work on the Sabbath (.."..My father has kept working until now and I keep working.. because Lord of the Sabbath is what the son of man is..." Hence God should allow JW eating blood and receiving "life saving" blood transfusion to survive because JW conscience is (seemingly) ONLY based upon wt interpretation of Scripture.

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

Fisherman

JWs have come to a far different interpretation of Jewish Law by means of rejecting the culture and theology that shaped it. -DJ

NO they haven't. But they base their teachings on the "NT's'" interpretation of the "OT"

According to the Gospels, Christianity was a Jewish movement that coexisted with other Jewish movements pre 70. IT did not catch on, however, Pharisaic Judaism not being Temple based, according to Talmudic legends, survived- bais hatred or un-based, take your pick.

In the Soncino Press, (I have all the books) the publishers give some academic credit to non-Jewish commentators, referring to them as 'semi-heathen' and "by the same token," (an expression used by TD ) surviving Pharisaic Judaism like the Samaritans or even a Policeman fired from his job but who continues to presume his duty, have no authority, and their interpretations although having some academic merit (the Samaritan Pentateuch for example) is not Temple based, have no spiritual value, and also not from Jehovah. Jws interpretations of Tanakh is not baseless, made up by the wt, they are the teachings of Christianity as opposed to the teachings of surviving Judaism, and besides that, JW proclaim authority.

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

Fisherman

but you would not automatically be adjudged as a thief.

Therefore, you conclude that in a survival situation jw should be required to consume blood same as a Jew is required to eat to save his life over keeping kosher? WT does not view it like that.

From the JW website:

14 "What if a doctor tells us that we will die if we do not have a blood transfusion? Each person must decide whether to obey God’s law on blood. Christians deeply respect God’s gift of life, and we will look for alternative treatments to keep living; but we will not accept a blood transfusion."

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

Fisherman

the bible teaches explicity that the jews are God's chosen people

Who really is a Jew?

Am I God's chosen people if I am a jw and a jew? Or is any convert to Judaism a jew. And what determines what constitutes a jew, the Halacha ? or your conclusions ? or Jehovah?

Zechariah 8:23 (Romans 2:29) and (Galatians 3:29) Romans 9:22-25, Galatians 6:15,16

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

Fisherman

JWs, by contrast, had no such events from the heavens to base their religion upon. Claiming...

And you can believe your UN-prevailing view if you like just the same as all Gents have their views too equal to Judaism- but without Jehovah it is moot.

Shavouth

Interestingly corresponds with God's Holy Spirit operative upon non-Jews (Pentecost 33CE as proclaimed by JW: "The kingdom of God will be taken away from you (Jews) and given to a nation producing its fruits.")

(Exodus 23:16, 17) . . .Also, the festival of harvest of the first ripe fruits of your labors, of what you sow in the field; and the festival of ingathering at the outgoing of the year, when you gather in your labors from the field. 17 On three occasions in the year every male of yours will appear before the face of the [true] Lord, Jehovah.and Deut 16:16

It appears to be a historical fact that the siege on Jerusalem that resulted in the destruction of "the Temple #2" began on Passover 70. According to Josephus, Jerusalem was filled to the brim with observant Jews, keepers of the above mentioned mitzvah. Seems that Jehovah wanted to kill as many as possible by unleashing the Roman army at the right time, only after the city was filled, using the law of Moses as a trap to catch as many as possible. Even Titus the heathen Gentile attributed his conquest to God who abandoned the Jews to him What seems to have prevailed at that time was not the law of Moses (see arch of Titus in Rome) but the command of Jesus. Josephus also points out that along with Christians, secular Jews also headed for the hills and the DEcapolis not trusting that Jehovah would save them in his Holy City from the Romans.

According to Josephus, the first siege in Jerusalem in 66 resulted in the defeat of the Romans, the rebels pursuing the Romans up to the same place where Joshua had commanded in the ancient past; "Sun, Moon, stand still!" But ironically, the sun was turned into darkness and the moon did not give its light because the Jewish zealots defeat of the Roman army was not complete, the Romans came back.

95

Supreme Court Of Russia bans Jehovah's Witnesses as an 'extremist organization'

by EdenOne in

read the news here.

the jehovah's witnesses lost their appeal to the supreme court of russia.

bethel to be liquidated.. i bet the gb saw this coming ... here comes the persecution complex paranoia.

Fisherman

Sorry, but your view of the Witness religion is idealized and simplistic.....It does NOT reflect reality!

If you say so.

26

Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses? (JW.org FAQ)

by Da.Furious in

found this in my rss feed of, as new faq on jw.org:.

the answer was .

a person can resign from our organization in two ways:.

Fisherman

Very easy. Yo declare that you don't want to be a jw and you are out. They may ask you to put it in writting but if you say it to 3 elders I cannot see what that is not accepted

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

Fisherman

....people who have lived the Law every waking moment of their lives.

What you are describing are the Jews of the Bible that loved Jehovah's law-and not the Babylonians walking around today with "Shabbes keys" within their eruvs, mobbing, maiming, blinding, spitting at, and encroaching on the freedoms of Jehovah's Witnesses (missionaries).

It is well established by Christian interpretation of the Bible that the law ends in Christ, the seed of Abraham ("to your seed I will give the land." -as explained in the "Epistles.") The "jews," that is to say, the natural descendants of Jacob(and Rahab, etc), play no other role than that- a maginificent one indeed- (write the Bible and mother the Messiah.) in God's books. Modern Halachic jews in-spite of their adherence to their version of the law of Moses (no to brother-in-law marriage- yes to pilegesh depending on the Rabbi. ) have no role in God's wok. It is purely academic how Judaism today interpret the Bible, they have no authority and no Holy Spirit. The JW proclaim both. Judaism's modern version of Israel is a Republic who's Shomer is nuclear weapons and UN-hamstrung horses (mute ones) -and not Jehovah of Armies.

Anyway, that is my just view. We will see who's view prevails.

95

Supreme Court Of Russia bans Jehovah's Witnesses as an 'extremist organization'

by EdenOne in

read the news here.

the jehovah's witnesses lost their appeal to the supreme court of russia.

bethel to be liquidated.. i bet the gb saw this coming ... here comes the persecution complex paranoia.

Fisherman

Destroy young lives through coerced baptism at a very early age

How about infant baptism,albeit but JW baptism does not destroy lives. Moral corruption, tobacco, "aloholicism" drug abuse destroys lives, thanks to BTH and the government too. Children of baptism age and younger can get arrested and prosecuted and jailed. Jw baptism aint so bad. You are angry at JW

Destroy young lives through coerced avoidance of life saving medical assistance.

How about sending young men to vietnam and then spitting in their face when they return? I have a close friend, not a a practicing JW, his infant child was diagnosed:need blood, he refused, they pumped the blood into the infant anyway, killing him shortly afterwards.

Destroy families with their evil shunning policy

Shunning is not evil when it is an attempt to change the conduct of a beloved family member on the road to death and depravity. I think that it is more the family practicing the shunning in an extreme way than the shunning doctrine itself. Some people are just fanatics (self righeous) and more papist than the pope.

How about the Family Courts in the US destroying lives and families with their decisons and powers of the court.. JW shuning does not destroy familes , more than 50 percent of marriages in the US end up in divorce resulting in orders of protection, child custody, divorce, visitation orders, etc. -and destroyed families. The Law wll kill or jail your child. The Jw wants your child to live healthy mentally, physically, and spiritually.THe purpose of shunning is to attempt to change conduct that is harmful to a person and to others.

The law cares about the law. After a death sentence is carried out, then it is ok to acquit. Too bad though that person was executed.

I think that the views and actions against JW are more extreme than JW practices.