Hecce, great stuff you are posting about Cuba since little is known about JW in Cuba. Keep it up as you remember stuff. Speaking with Cubans in the US, prior to FC, Cuba had a lot of Spaniards that also married with the Cubans and Jews, Chinese, Italians, etc. but after FC they ALL left, leaving the Island with Hispanic Cubans and Black Cubans. MY impression of Cubans is that they are not stupid but ingenious. They encourage their sons to get a higher education. They have a spirit of ruler as a people, taking every opportunity to be independent or professionals. Except for JW Cubans, in the US, you will seldom see Cuban employees for long, they break free and start their own business, the second generation become doctors, professors, dentists, politicians. I have observed that there is something that drives Cubans in the US to become greater. They are not a complacent people.
Fisherman
JoinedPosts by Fisherman
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143
Fidel Castro and the WT
by Hecce ini am going to engage on a trip to the past and share with you some of the matters that marked the beginning of the jws persecution in cuba.
you will be surprised that the pattern that was followed is very similar to what happened in other dictatorial countries.. in the cuban case, i am going to surprise you and tell you that like what happened with hitler; the wt was partially responsible for their clash and confrontation with the cuban government.
during the early 60s the revolution was fighting for survival and they were willing and ready to demolish any perceived enemy to their cause.. a prime example was their war against the catholic church that was the most influential religious entity in the country; it took the supreme leader only a few public discourses to send the vast majority of clergy packing and back to their country, in this case spain.. the jehovah’s witnesses were an insignificant minority but they over estimated their importance and displayed a belligerent attitude, it was known that this was a us based religion and an easy target to connect them with the cia.
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Fisherman
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Share Your Favorite Shakespeare
by compound complex ingive me my romeo; and, when he shall die,take him and cut him out in little stars,and he will make the face of heaven so finethat all the world will be in love with nightand pay no worship to the garish sun.. -- romeo and juliet 3 ii.
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Fisherman
I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands,
organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same
food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases,
heal'd by the same means, warm'd and cool'd by the same winter
and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If
you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die?
And if you wrong us, do we not revenge? If we are like you in the
rest, we will resemble you in that. -
143
Fidel Castro and the WT
by Hecce ini am going to engage on a trip to the past and share with you some of the matters that marked the beginning of the jws persecution in cuba.
you will be surprised that the pattern that was followed is very similar to what happened in other dictatorial countries.. in the cuban case, i am going to surprise you and tell you that like what happened with hitler; the wt was partially responsible for their clash and confrontation with the cuban government.
during the early 60s the revolution was fighting for survival and they were willing and ready to demolish any perceived enemy to their cause.. a prime example was their war against the catholic church that was the most influential religious entity in the country; it took the supreme leader only a few public discourses to send the vast majority of clergy packing and back to their country, in this case spain.. the jehovah’s witnesses were an insignificant minority but they over estimated their importance and displayed a belligerent attitude, it was known that this was a us based religion and an easy target to connect them with the cia.
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Fisherman
Hecce, it is a great post. It is an informative post. I enjoy reading your post. Very interesting information from someone that knows!
during those 30 long years
You correctly posted that during the 90's there was some change in the JW situation in Cuba. At Bethel, during that time, information was revealed about conditions in Cuba, such information to be held strictly confidential, some of that information was about the horrible torture of Cuban JW.
Specially in the US, since 1914, the wt had been triumphant in Court decisions, etc There was every reason to expect victory everywhere and Armageddon too-it did not turn out that way at that time but in the US the wt enjoyed victory after victory after victory. The US Supreme Court cases involving WT is proof. I can imagine what JW and others went through in Cuba but I am not convinced that WT error was the cause of JW suffering. I am not saying that it was not, I am saying that I do not know if that was the case.
A couple of years after the success of the Cuban revolution, FC, closed the doors of Cuba, some people managed to get out with only the clothes on their back since the government made it a crime to take out any money or currency out of the country yet others stayed, convinced that the FC government would not last. AS it turned out, those that decided to stay got stuck with no hope of getting out unless they had relatives in the US for example, in such case the US relative could petition for the Cuban relative, any blood relative would qualify, uncle, etc.. It usually took about 5 years. After the BOP invasion where JFK abandoned the soldiers that went to Cuba not backing them up with the air support he promised, they were captured put in concentration camps, etc but JFK passed a law giving asylum to all Cubans.
As you know Hecce, under Batista, Cuba was the "corrupt little Island of the Caribbean"-Howard Cosel -at least in Havana- but that description did not apply to the Guajiro peasants who were iliiterate, gullible but noble hearted people.Cuba at that time was high in illiterate people. Poverty and hunger was shameful, not to mention the corrupt government (I am talking about prior to FC.) Anyway, FC deployed methods to change all that and kicked the US out too, but after the Cuban ban by the US, "hasta banana" for the Cuban economy. Everyone kept hoping that the Fidel Castro government would fall even after JFK promised Nikita Khrushchev never to invade Cuba , Cubans should have seen that that was the nail on the coffin.
Anyway, aren't Cubans very Catholic and superstitious? How did the JW movement do at that time, were the Cubans buying the message?
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19
Share Your Favorite Shakespeare
by compound complex ingive me my romeo; and, when he shall die,take him and cut him out in little stars,and he will make the face of heaven so finethat all the world will be in love with nightand pay no worship to the garish sun.. -- romeo and juliet 3 ii.
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Fisherman
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th' oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law’s delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life, -
143
Fidel Castro and the WT
by Hecce ini am going to engage on a trip to the past and share with you some of the matters that marked the beginning of the jws persecution in cuba.
you will be surprised that the pattern that was followed is very similar to what happened in other dictatorial countries.. in the cuban case, i am going to surprise you and tell you that like what happened with hitler; the wt was partially responsible for their clash and confrontation with the cuban government.
during the early 60s the revolution was fighting for survival and they were willing and ready to demolish any perceived enemy to their cause.. a prime example was their war against the catholic church that was the most influential religious entity in the country; it took the supreme leader only a few public discourses to send the vast majority of clergy packing and back to their country, in this case spain.. the jehovah’s witnesses were an insignificant minority but they over estimated their importance and displayed a belligerent attitude, it was known that this was a us based religion and an easy target to connect them with the cia.
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Fisherman
They behaved in a way that was suicidal, an American based religion attacking the core beliefs that the Revolution was trying to implant in the public was a no no
So you are saying that the Cuban government persecuted JW because of WT position and actions against the gov and had the WT not have said the things it did about the government, it would not have persecuted JW for being JW. JW = preaching, neutrality, no flag salute.
Over the next 30 years the WT did very little to change the conditions of the JWs in Cuba,
WE really do not know what the WT did or tried to do and it must be shown that wt actually did nothing or as you say very little.
finally in the 90s they decided to cry "uncle". No different than Malawi, the record is there and we don't have to go too far to find it.
You have to show that the WT actually gave in and retreated from its former position.
I am not saying that you should do anything, I am only saying that there is a difference between an accusation and proof.
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143
Fidel Castro and the WT
by Hecce ini am going to engage on a trip to the past and share with you some of the matters that marked the beginning of the jws persecution in cuba.
you will be surprised that the pattern that was followed is very similar to what happened in other dictatorial countries.. in the cuban case, i am going to surprise you and tell you that like what happened with hitler; the wt was partially responsible for their clash and confrontation with the cuban government.
during the early 60s the revolution was fighting for survival and they were willing and ready to demolish any perceived enemy to their cause.. a prime example was their war against the catholic church that was the most influential religious entity in the country; it took the supreme leader only a few public discourses to send the vast majority of clergy packing and back to their country, in this case spain.. the jehovah’s witnesses were an insignificant minority but they over estimated their importance and displayed a belligerent attitude, it was known that this was a us based religion and an easy target to connect them with the cia.
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Fisherman
We locals had the firm conviction that we were doing the right thing by following all the instructions coming from "mother".
Hecce, you have to show that what the WT did at that time from a spiritual position was not proper to prove WT wrong.
One thing is true,many actions by the government against JW are reprehensible. IN the US, many letters from US governmental agencies have been written to the WT to apologize for wrongful actions. Some of these actions resulted in the death, torture and violations of freedoms of JW guaranteed by the US Constitution. In spite of amendments by the government, their shame and reproach will never be wiped out and requires justice in the form of retaliation from God.
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143
Fidel Castro and the WT
by Hecce ini am going to engage on a trip to the past and share with you some of the matters that marked the beginning of the jws persecution in cuba.
you will be surprised that the pattern that was followed is very similar to what happened in other dictatorial countries.. in the cuban case, i am going to surprise you and tell you that like what happened with hitler; the wt was partially responsible for their clash and confrontation with the cuban government.
during the early 60s the revolution was fighting for survival and they were willing and ready to demolish any perceived enemy to their cause.. a prime example was their war against the catholic church that was the most influential religious entity in the country; it took the supreme leader only a few public discourses to send the vast majority of clergy packing and back to their country, in this case spain.. the jehovah’s witnesses were an insignificant minority but they over estimated their importance and displayed a belligerent attitude, it was known that this was a us based religion and an easy target to connect them with the cia.
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Fisherman
Hecce, it seems to me that WT believing it is God's org, did what they did in the past also believing God would fight immediately in their defense, they were not expecting seems to me that they would have to go through what they did for so many years. Again, but who knows- but it appears to be the case that they may have considered a different philosophy back then given the new stand on non-combat military service.
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143
Fidel Castro and the WT
by Hecce ini am going to engage on a trip to the past and share with you some of the matters that marked the beginning of the jws persecution in cuba.
you will be surprised that the pattern that was followed is very similar to what happened in other dictatorial countries.. in the cuban case, i am going to surprise you and tell you that like what happened with hitler; the wt was partially responsible for their clash and confrontation with the cuban government.
during the early 60s the revolution was fighting for survival and they were willing and ready to demolish any perceived enemy to their cause.. a prime example was their war against the catholic church that was the most influential religious entity in the country; it took the supreme leader only a few public discourses to send the vast majority of clergy packing and back to their country, in this case spain.. the jehovah’s witnesses were an insignificant minority but they over estimated their importance and displayed a belligerent attitude, it was known that this was a us based religion and an easy target to connect them with the cia.
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Fisherman
"batiblancos" not "patiblancos"
Had to post this agin previous did not post through. WOW!! Thanks for the detail! I would have thought that pati, a commonly used Cuban slang prefix would best describe a white robed Cuban going around but bati is more descriptive I suppose. Thank you, much appreciated.!
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143
Fidel Castro and the WT
by Hecce ini am going to engage on a trip to the past and share with you some of the matters that marked the beginning of the jws persecution in cuba.
you will be surprised that the pattern that was followed is very similar to what happened in other dictatorial countries.. in the cuban case, i am going to surprise you and tell you that like what happened with hitler; the wt was partially responsible for their clash and confrontation with the cuban government.
during the early 60s the revolution was fighting for survival and they were willing and ready to demolish any perceived enemy to their cause.. a prime example was their war against the catholic church that was the most influential religious entity in the country; it took the supreme leader only a few public discourses to send the vast majority of clergy packing and back to their country, in this case spain.. the jehovah’s witnesses were an insignificant minority but they over estimated their importance and displayed a belligerent attitude, it was known that this was a us based religion and an easy target to connect them with the cia.
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Fisherman
He celebrated the later as defiant as ever with an open letter full of criticism of President Obama; same thing that he has done to every American President since Eisenhower.
It is well known that President Eisenhower had a JW past although never baptized. With that aside, it is also well known that Prime Minister Fidel Castro after winning the Cuban revolution came to the US for the purpose of meeting with Eisenhower and hopefully to be endorsed and accepted by DDE but Eisenhower slighted FC, not even showing up to meet with him, this justifiably made Dr. Castro, the proud man the he was, furious and offended and I am not surprised if President Castro took the actions against the US that he did for personal reasons besides the agendas that were later manifested-but who knows, maybe Eisenhower already knew that Castro would come with an offer he could not accept and there was no point in giving him any consideration or courtesy whatsoever.
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143
Fidel Castro and the WT
by Hecce ini am going to engage on a trip to the past and share with you some of the matters that marked the beginning of the jws persecution in cuba.
you will be surprised that the pattern that was followed is very similar to what happened in other dictatorial countries.. in the cuban case, i am going to surprise you and tell you that like what happened with hitler; the wt was partially responsible for their clash and confrontation with the cuban government.
during the early 60s the revolution was fighting for survival and they were willing and ready to demolish any perceived enemy to their cause.. a prime example was their war against the catholic church that was the most influential religious entity in the country; it took the supreme leader only a few public discourses to send the vast majority of clergy packing and back to their country, in this case spain.. the jehovah’s witnesses were an insignificant minority but they over estimated their importance and displayed a belligerent attitude, it was known that this was a us based religion and an easy target to connect them with the cia.
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Fisherman
Hecce, thank you for your post. Interesting.
I was told by my Cuban mother that JWs used to always wear white when preaching. VI
VI, I spoke to some Cubans and they told me the same thing but I did not believe that JW dressed in white and thought they were confusing with SDA or some other group. But the Cuban told me that they referred to JW as: 'patiblanco" because they dressed in white. So you confirmed what the Cubans said is true.