Posts by Fisherman

41

Sheep and the Goats - The Light Gets Brighter

by nmthinker in

perhaps some of you remember a new understanding of the sheep and the goats in the epic march 2015 wt study edition - specifically the article "loyally supporting christ's brothers".. while this article was studied many months ago, it was instrumental in helping me wake up.

during my study of the 2015 article i recalled that we had just revised our understanding of the sheep and the goats a few years ago and this caused me to research the real progression of the jw understanding of this parable.

i put the results of my research in an excel spreadsheet.. .

Fisherman

I read Jesus' words to mean: help on the personal, humanitarian level, to the most helpless, sick, lowly and destitute;..

In Jesus day, Jesus "brothers" refers to only those related to Jesus in the faith: his Apostles and disciples who were carrying out their assigned ministry-that is what being a Christian was all about back then. Similarly today, Jesus brothers should at least mean only those that Jesus recognizes as his followers and especially those that are of the heavenly calling mentioned in the scriptures I cited in my previous post.

41

Sheep and the Goats - The Light Gets Brighter

by nmthinker in

perhaps some of you remember a new understanding of the sheep and the goats in the epic march 2015 wt study edition - specifically the article "loyally supporting christ's brothers".. while this article was studied many months ago, it was instrumental in helping me wake up.

during my study of the 2015 article i recalled that we had just revised our understanding of the sheep and the goats a few years ago and this caused me to research the real progression of the jw understanding of this parable.

i put the results of my research in an excel spreadsheet.. .

Fisherman

Math 12:50 defined His Brothers very broadly, saying: everyone that does the will of my father is my brother- Prologos

In the context on Math 12:50, it just seems to me that Jesus is only referring to spiritual relationship instead of blood relatives in a general sense although it would be also accurate to say that given wt teaching on the heavenly class of Christians, all Christians back then were Jesus' anointed brothers -I could be wrong. But neither does Mathew 12:20 invalidate what you state nor the possibility that in the aforementioned parable Jesus is referring to his brothers in the context of Hebrews 3:1, Galatians 3:15-16,26,29. At the very least wt theology defining a heavenly class and earthly class is possible.

In my post that you are referring to, I was not showing that wt interpretation of said parable is correct, but that given that it is, it is also internally consistent.

In the related parable ALL nations refer to Jesus as Lord-even the Jews. This is not because any one of these people standing before Jesus ever believed in Jesus at all, but because the Bible makes it crystal clear that every will see him and will have to acknowledge his authority and in that context they call him Lord. This parable only considers one facet of the basis for judgment, namely actions towards Christ's brothers -there are other facets to also consider. According to this parable though, actions towards Christ's brothers is a requirement for salvation. In his post nmt argues that: how should the so called goats have been required to act towards an entity unidentified to them and therefore in order for wt interpretation of the parable to be consistent, goats must mean jw that do not preach, etc., and does not apply to non-JW because non-jw do not recognize "jw anointed" to mean Christ's brothers. But if that was the case, it should also be the case that all nations forced to stand before Jesus in judgment should be able to argue that they did not know the identity of Jesus either, but the parable does not allow for that excuse. According to the parable, everyone -not just jw- is required to support Jesus' brothers, regardless of what that means .Although nmt linked spreadsheet purporting to show wt changing interpretation of elements in the related parable, such does not change God's requirements for salvation.

41

Sheep and the Goats - The Light Gets Brighter

by nmthinker in

perhaps some of you remember a new understanding of the sheep and the goats in the epic march 2015 wt study edition - specifically the article "loyally supporting christ's brothers".. while this article was studied many months ago, it was instrumental in helping me wake up.

during my study of the 2015 article i recalled that we had just revised our understanding of the sheep and the goats a few years ago and this caused me to research the real progression of the jw understanding of this parable.

i put the results of my research in an excel spreadsheet.. .

Fisherman

how the judging of the sheep and the goats pivoted from mankind as a whole to a focus exclusively on JW's.

The article that you refer to does not say that but something that you have concluded on your own.

According to this new light, those who are sheep are those who support Christ's brothers, either by preaching or,...Logically then, the parable cannot be directed to the world as a whole, as they do not even know who Christ's Brothers

Again, the logic is all yours. Note the parable that is being discussed in the article.

31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. 42 For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat; and I was thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ 44 Then they too will answer with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.” -NWT

See, it applies to non JW too. spiritual blindness is no excuse. (Assuming that "sheep" means JW kingdom supporters.)

But credit to you relating this article.

23

How Detached Are The Governing Body From Members Of the Bethel Family Where They Live?

by Brokeback Watchtower in

well consider for a moment the layoffs at bethel?

the gb simply reassigned them out in the field for after many years of service it seems with out batting an eye with no real severance pay.

now to me that spells detachment and lack of any real concern for those who served loyally for years.. spain is trying to get some type benefits for the people/citizens in their country who served the wt corporation for years and are no longer of any use to the corporation.

Fisherman

Once upon a time, bethel service was only for a few years...then somehow it became some lifer career thing. -LGH

Not the way it happened. Actually, once upon a time, bethelites, lucky enough to qualify for the service, were encouraged by bethel to make bethel their career. It was not until the recent past that that has apparently changed.

114

"The G.B. is neither inspired nor infallible"

by smiddy in

that admission in the feb.17 ,study edition of the watchtower , " who is leading gods people today ?

" "the governing body is neither inspired, nor infallible, therefore it (they/we) can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction .".

have the many jehovahs witnesses past and present who have lost their lives by refusing blood transfusions due to the prohibition on blood tranfusions by jehovahs witnesses really got the sense of this statement ?.

Fisherman

"Direction from God or his prophets cannot be equated to direction from the GB,... Splash"

Which brings us back to the wt study article being discusses on this thread entitled, "Who is leading God's people today?"

114

"The G.B. is neither inspired nor infallible"

by smiddy in

that admission in the feb.17 ,study edition of the watchtower , " who is leading gods people today ?

" "the governing body is neither inspired, nor infallible, therefore it (they/we) can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction .".

have the many jehovahs witnesses past and present who have lost their lives by refusing blood transfusions due to the prohibition on blood tranfusions by jehovahs witnesses really got the sense of this statement ?.

Fisherman

fisherman said: There is a scriptural basis for that: -Heaven

I have given Biblical examples (in my related post) showing how it is reasonable to follow direction coming from God even if said direction does not seem sound in terms of strategy.

23

How Detached Are The Governing Body From Members Of the Bethel Family Where They Live?

by Brokeback Watchtower in

well consider for a moment the layoffs at bethel?

the gb simply reassigned them out in the field for after many years of service it seems with out batting an eye with no real severance pay.

now to me that spells detachment and lack of any real concern for those who served loyally for years.. spain is trying to get some type benefits for the people/citizens in their country who served the wt corporation for years and are no longer of any use to the corporation.

Fisherman

Well consider for a moment the layoffs at bethel?

Bethel ain't a job. JW go to Bethel because they believe it is a service to God. The days of making Bethel a career are over.

114

"The G.B. is neither inspired nor infallible"

by smiddy in

that admission in the feb.17 ,study edition of the watchtower , " who is leading gods people today ?

" "the governing body is neither inspired, nor infallible, therefore it (they/we) can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction .".

have the many jehovahs witnesses past and present who have lost their lives by refusing blood transfusions due to the prohibition on blood tranfusions by jehovahs witnesses really got the sense of this statement ?.

Fisherman

All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.

There is a scriptural basis for that: 1. When Moses lead Israel to a position where they were surrounded. 2. Jesus instructions to flee Jerusalem when surrounded by Roman armies. 3. God's instruction to king David to go behind at the battle of the baca bushes. 4.The direction Gideon received from God at the battle with Midian- just to mention a few off the top of my head. But the JW must incorporate the possibility of error when making the decision whether or not to obey WT direction, especially with 1975 and previous wt errors behind them. I think Jw will folllow anyway since JW believe what they do. The JW movement has not played out yet but something has to give within a year or so.

114

"The G.B. is neither inspired nor infallible"

by smiddy in

that admission in the feb.17 ,study edition of the watchtower , " who is leading gods people today ?

" "the governing body is neither inspired, nor infallible, therefore it (they/we) can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction .".

have the many jehovahs witnesses past and present who have lost their lives by refusing blood transfusions due to the prohibition on blood tranfusions by jehovahs witnesses really got the sense of this statement ?.

Fisherman

Linked jwfacts article posts wt claims printed circa 1931 (noteworthy at that -even the assertion that wt does not print opinions, but if that was the case, WT doctrines and direction would not be subject to error which in fact they are as aforementioned wt study article admits. However, regardless of wt claims, it is the jw that have concluded for a fact on their own that wt is backed by Holy Spirit. If that is not a fact, it is foolish to follow the teachings of men -Psalms 146:3,4

114

"The G.B. is neither inspired nor infallible"

by smiddy in

that admission in the feb.17 ,study edition of the watchtower , " who is leading gods people today ?

" "the governing body is neither inspired, nor infallible, therefore it (they/we) can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction .".

have the many jehovahs witnesses past and present who have lost their lives by refusing blood transfusions due to the prohibition on blood tranfusions by jehovahs witnesses really got the sense of this statement ?.

Fisherman

Who is leading God's people today?

The WT study article is for JW who have already concluded that WT is. The argument presented in the article is to help the convinced JW reconcile error and Holy Spirit co-existence in wt movement. Once having concluded that WT is leading God's people today, the only logical course for JW is to follow wt subject to error in doctrine and direction. Assuming it is a fact that WT is leading God's people today (that is to say, Holy Spirit,) that is the only thing that matters.Error does not invalidate that fact.