Part of human nature to want to be accepted and to assimilate and to want to fit in and be like others. People start to look alike sound alike, peer pressure, and there is a syndrome when people are in captivity that causes them to be like and accept their captors.
Fisherman
JoinedPosts by Fisherman
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6
Why do subjugated people adopt the religion of their oppressors?
by James Mixon ini always wondered why african slaves adopted the bible.
for the life of me i couldn't understand the attraction.
of course this is not only african slaves who adopted the religion of their oppressors, so i came across a article "the above topic".. five reasons 1)coercion (2)co-option (3)conditioning (4)convincing (5) materialist consequences..in the case of the african slaves they made sure that plenty of bibles be shipped to the south and used to keep the slaves in line... so my question, what will be the religion in the destined future,jw's(no way),scientology (hope not),christianity, islamic or maybe no religion???
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Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Fisherman
I presented facts here that there are states that bar ministers from reporting child abuse, so I was waiting for one person to disprove it by actual facts. I don't need more sentiment in my life, I like pure facts.
One fact about mandatory reporting in some states is that a Penitent can sue for breach of confidentiality protected under the US Constitution. Very simple solution if the US gov wants clergy to report crimes- change the law, period. -No more Catholic church confessions and no more JC. No penitent will be stupid enough to confess his sins or ask for any spiritual help. End of religious freedom and end of religion. But no end to child abuse because the deviants will find ways. But as the law stands now, Clergy can be sued and Penitent confidetialty is protected under the Constitution. Don't get angry with the church, blame the constitution.
If the church reports, they loose their clients and can be sued. If the church does not report, they are sued.
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Day 1 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Opening Statements and Motions in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial
by AndersonsInfo innews bulletin: fessler versus watchtower – opening statements and motions in jehovah’s witness child abuse trial – day 1. .
posted on february 12, 2017. city hall, philadelphia, pennsylvania.
on a cold philadelphia morning the 7th of february, 2017, stephanie fessler walked into the court of common pleas of pennsylvania, first judicial district, civil trial division.
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Fisherman
This is a civil case. The Defendant can be found legally responsible for the damages alleged by Plaintiff - but is not convicted of any crime. Even if the jurors have doubts, they must find the Defendant liable based upon preponderance of evidence, and not based upon beyond ANY reasonable doubt which would be the case if the Defendant was facing criminal charges, being prosecuted for a crime by a prosecuting agency of the government.
This trial is very different than a criminal trial, whereas a criminal trial uses a higher standard for establishing guilt, a civil trial for a tort or civil lawsuit adjudicates liability on a much lower standard of guilt (only 51 percent certainty.)
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Infinity versus nothing
by Fisherman insome people like to believe in something others believe in nothing; so in what location did the substance that expanded into the time/space universe exist before the big bang?
where did the energy that caused the big band come from?
how did the substance that became the big bang change from being inert and sterile and come to life to having the properties and drive that it does?
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Fisherman
Anyone who believes that light can behave like a wave or particle depending on the experiment may as well accept the Trinity.
Enjoy this comment very much also! (But it doesn't prove the trinity any more than St. Patty's Shamrock.)
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put youir thinking caps on.
by zeb inthis was sent to me from doug shields blog.
for those who like stats and numbers may find this of interest.. 1914 – recognizing the ”the elephant in the room”.
the problem with the date ”1914 ad” lays with the two calendars that are involved – jewish and gregorian.
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Fisherman
So what?
They were still sowing seed; the land had not begun to pay its Sabbaths after the first raid.
"...until the kingdom of Persia began to reign, 21 to fulfill Jehovah’s word spoken by Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days it lay desolate it kept sabbath, to fulfill 70 years" 2ch36:20,21
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put youir thinking caps on.
by zeb inthis was sent to me from doug shields blog.
for those who like stats and numbers may find this of interest.. 1914 – recognizing the ”the elephant in the room”.
the problem with the date ”1914 ad” lays with the two calendars that are involved – jewish and gregorian.
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Fisherman
This did not post through.
The bible is very clear that the 70 years ends when (or arguably before) the fall of Babylon: Jer 25:12.
The Bible states that a remnant would be restored after the 70 years are fulfilled. Jeremiah 29:10
(or arguably before)
There is no reason to believe that 70 means less.
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put youir thinking caps on.
by zeb inthis was sent to me from doug shields blog.
for those who like stats and numbers may find this of interest.. 1914 – recognizing the ”the elephant in the room”.
the problem with the date ”1914 ad” lays with the two calendars that are involved – jewish and gregorian.
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Fisherman
First of all, Fisherman, I enjoy having a good friendly debate. However, I warn in advance, I may disappear for long periods, and not respond.
Me too.
I am not confused about Isa 50:1.
You stated that it was muddy to you,
Forget my interpretation, and look at yours.
None stated, only your remarks about your muddy understanding of the scripture. Same can be said of any Bible verse or the Bible as a whole when something said challenges your position.
On the contrary, I have established the sequence of events,
No you haven't
according to the bible alone.
According to you, as you say the Bible says.
If babylon fell on 539 BC (a date Watchtower agrees with) then Jerusalem fell on 587 BC
No it did not. That is a conclusion based on interpretation. Not based on evidence but interpretation of the evidence.
(a date everybody agrees with, except Watchtower).
True
Even your interpretation is consistent with, the 70 years commencing with the first captives being led from Jerusalem,
No, it is not. Isaiah was not alive at the time of the first raid. Jewish tradition holds that the prohet was sawn assunder by king Mannaseh. In any event, he was dead.
fact it contradicts Jer 27:1-6.
No it does not and not a fact. The scripture is prophetic and does not establish that Jerusalem fell on 587.
697 BC may be a valid interpretation, but not for the date of the fall of Jerusalem.
607 is a valid interpretation of when the destruction of Jerusalem occured.
That is where CT Russell stuffed up, and where Watchtower is wrong.
Wrong
Russell copied (via Balbour) the work of John Aquila Brown but didn't understand it, stuffed it up,
How does that show that 586 is the correct date?
and Watchtower has been trying to assert Jerusalem fell in 606 BC or 607 BC to hide Russell's stuff up, ever since.
How does that show that 607 is incorrect?
Let's just leave it at that. You have an agenda to convince lurkers. I don't want to get in your way since I have no agenda but only to have my say. Anyway thanks for your Bible references and your views on them.
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Infinity versus nothing
by Fisherman insome people like to believe in something others believe in nothing; so in what location did the substance that expanded into the time/space universe exist before the big bang?
where did the energy that caused the big band come from?
how did the substance that became the big bang change from being inert and sterile and come to life to having the properties and drive that it does?
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Fisherman
the nature of the universe, and secondly a similar issue, any reference to the concepts involved have to fit in with your pre-existing paradigms.
Physical no? and conforming to scientific realism? Or do you believe that the universe is like the trinity?
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put youir thinking caps on.
by zeb inthis was sent to me from doug shields blog.
for those who like stats and numbers may find this of interest.. 1914 – recognizing the ”the elephant in the room”.
the problem with the date ”1914 ad” lays with the two calendars that are involved – jewish and gregorian.
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Fisherman
retracted -
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put youir thinking caps on.
by zeb inthis was sent to me from doug shields blog.
for those who like stats and numbers may find this of interest.. 1914 – recognizing the ”the elephant in the room”.
the problem with the date ”1914 ad” lays with the two calendars that are involved – jewish and gregorian.
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Fisherman
539-70 is very clear. Wt 607 is a valid interpretation. And that is that.
Isaiah 50:1 is also clear:
50 This is what Jehovah says:“Where is the divorce certificate of your mother, whom I sent away?Or to which of my creditors did I sell you?Look! It was because of your own errors you were sold,And because of your own transgressions your mother was sent away.
In the above quoted scripture, the prophet Isaiah refers to God's covenanted people as a nation, as the mother of you people, God being in a husbandly like covenant with the entire nation. But the scripture also refers to the nation as being sent away at that time before the desolation actually occured, as if it already happened and the nation was already in captivity, before the desolation. Hence this scripture is prophetic, being "sent away" was future but as certain as if it had already occurred. And so, your enterpretation of the verses you cite and the interpretation of others as to when the Bible says events actually happened versus the prophetic language of the Bible. You, yourself admitting to being confused about Isa 50:1
It is well established and accepted that the king of Babylon raided Jerusalem 2x. The first time taking part of the nation captive Ez1:1.
It was to king Zedekiah that the prophet Ezeqiel said: "Remove the turban and lift of the crown..remove even the high one..a ruin I shall make it.... it shall cerainly become no one's" (the throne still having a king as Ezeqiel spoke) The "70 years" was a future event and did not begin with the first raid. But you can believe and interpret what you like, your views not invalidating WT. I respect your views and conclusions about the verses you cite but they do not establish the date of the destruction of the first Temple and of Jerusalem. I have posted a very simple method of extrapolating the date.
The desolation begins after the destruction of Jerusalem, the land rests 70 years, then a remnant is to be restored. Going back in time, Babylon falls and the Jews return; subtract 70 years from the date Jewish feet trample Jerusalem ending its rest and one arrives at circa 607. That is how I see it. And I rest my case.