Posts by Fisherman

8

Separation and Dubs

by DATA-DOG in

hey everyone,.

i haven't posted for some time.

i've been busy with life in the real world.

Fisherman

I think that a pussy cat will take off if no tuna fish after a month. Who can blame him?

92

Does Morality Exist?

by Fisherman in

some people believe that stealing, lying and killing, is not moral.

some people don't.. does morality exist?

if so, prove it..

People don't harm other conscious beings and help and assist other conscious being- that are "non- agents"- not because it is the moral thing to do but because of human feeling, compassion, empathy, love. Such human feelings are not standards. People will do those things based on human feeling.

Lets consider "morality" from what the Bible says and I am not saying that's morality. The word morality is used in the Bible aprox. 99 percent of the time in the context of sexual immorality, that's it. And according to Saename, such consentual conduct is not harming anyone.

In the US, it is too risky to try to help someone besides giving him a couple of bucks because you can get sued. Let's say you are on the train and you see what you believe is someone getting robbed and you intervene and for some reason the person is injured, you can be held legally responsible, or maybe they will implicate you as part of the robbery, or maybe what you believe is a robbery is not a robbery at all but part of a bigger picture between the two people and you wind up helping the wrong person.

If morality exists then the morality I see is mostly survival and not getting caught and that's if you want to call that morality. Well-being is based on human nature not social construct.

92

Does Morality Exist?

by Fisherman in

some people believe that stealing, lying and killing, is not moral.

some people don't.. does morality exist?

if so, prove it..

Fisherman

Saename,

You say that morality exists because you feel that it is wrong to harm others whether or not legislation governs such action. And you also feel that it is wrong to harm others whether or not the law says it is legal to do so or society says it is acceptable, Hitler for example. You also said that saving someone from harm ( considering the risk) is the moral thing to do. You also said that morality should be based upon whether or not actions harms others. You believe that morality is a "social construct." That is all you said.

Yeah, and in some other countries there also exist laws which allow you to kill your daughter because she was raped. It's called "honour killing." Is that well-being too, or are they using their own arbitrary standard?

Laws don't "allow". They proscribe or compel. The honor killing is probably one of your social constructs.

No, they don't. In Canada, we don't legislate cheating,

Depends on how you personally are defining cheating; If you mean fraud, it is a crime in Canada too. Cheating is a lesser form of fraud, and depending on the cheating, an exam for example, it is punishable.

You stated earlier that my belief that tattoos are wrong are based upon religious feelings and deep emotional feelings. You are wrong, a lot of non religious people feel the same way I do and my view is not based upon emotions or religion. I think that the person with tattoos is the one with emotional issues. I think you are wrong.

i can't address every wrong statement that you have made on this thread but saying that you have shown that morality exists and getting upset doesn't show that it does.

I never said that morality does not exist. I only said you did not prove that it does. Show me please where you have shown that it does. Stop getting nervous.

People base right and wrong on what they believe personally and emotionally based on past experience and on future consequences . Will a person avoid injuring someone or save someone from injury, or help someone out of empathy and compassion - a non agent - Yes, it is the human thing to do based on love. Other than that, people will do whatever they feel they can can get away with namely punishment from God or the law or getting caught.

Let's say that you say that cheating is not moral. I have a Medical Degree in my country. I am a qualified surgeon. I go to Canada. I have to pass exams there that are designed to make foreign doctors fail and a million other requirements impossible to meet - maybe in 4 years. Is it moral for me to cheat if I can get away with it? Or are the exams and qualification standards unfair?

92

Does Morality Exist?

by Fisherman in

some people believe that stealing, lying and killing, is not moral.

some people don't.. does morality exist?

if so, prove it..

Fisherman

Saename, there is lot posted for me to think about. I am focusing on your posts. I posted a lot of feelings but I have to read and consider everything you wrote.

92

Does Morality Exist?

by Fisherman in

some people believe that stealing, lying and killing, is not moral.

some people don't.. does morality exist?

if so, prove it..

Fisherman

Law is determined by any standard the country wishes to use.

Theft, Murder, Rape laws exist in every country are about well being.

Sex laws, drunk in public, indecent exposure like laws are also legislated depending on the country not based on any arbitrary standard but according to what is accepted as decent by a country or state.

I can't see how you're being immoral.

As it relates to any conduct sexual or otherwise, you say it is not immoral if it causes no harm to other conscious beings.

You also say that conduct is immoral when it harms other conscious beings.

I have shown that legislation in every country on earth governs human actions that affect others.

You say that morality exists because you feel concerned about harm to others whether or not legislation governs such action. And you also feel that concern whether or not the law says it is legal or society says it is acceptable. Is that your proof that morality exists?

92

Does Morality Exist?

by Fisherman in

some people believe that stealing, lying and killing, is not moral.

some people don't.. does morality exist?

if so, prove it..

Fisherman

Cofty, where did I post that morality does not exist?

Can you you show me morality same as I did with 'Health' for you? I already told you that I am not trying to make any point. TD also posted his views and others too that I have to think about. Please explain things to me in simple concrete terms versus abstract concepts and illustrations, doing so will help me understand faster.

92

Does Morality Exist?

by Fisherman in

some people believe that stealing, lying and killing, is not moral.

some people don't.. does morality exist?

if so, prove it..

Fisherman

what does law have to do with morality? We don't legislate based on morality. The two are separate, and right now we're talking about morality, not law, so I cannot see your point.

I think you are wrong. Legislation is based on well-being and morality. Laws governing sexual conduct is an example. Laws that protect the well being of animals is another example.

A person that drinks, eats, parties and is a slob, etc, as debauchery is defined is not harming anyone. But is he moral? If not, because you say so when if he is viewed as such by society?

Suppose you disagree with society about what conduct is moral? Does morality exist?

Murder, rape, and theft are punishable crimes in every society on the face of the earth and legislation is based upon the protection of the well-being of everyone and on morality.

I haven't seen solid proof of morality.

92

Does Morality Exist?

by Fisherman in

some people believe that stealing, lying and killing, is not moral.

some people don't.. does morality exist?

if so, prove it..

Fisherman

so long as it does no harm to non-consenting, non-involved individuals.

Says who? Is self preservation immoral when it involves harming other creatures?

In a most general sense, when we talk about morality, we are concerned with the well-being of conscious creatures with the primary focus on human beings.

Well-being of others is governed by laws, concerns are not.

Morality is the set of principles that determines the behaviour of rational, conscious agents to be either right or wrong/good or bad.

Do whatever you like or what you have been conditioned to feel, or what you inherently feel by nature or what is dictated by a governing body. Which which is which? Hitler's morality was concerned for the well-being of the German people and he was doing quite well. The Europeans also were concerned about wellbeing when they took the land from the Indians. They suceeded and he US is a prosperous nation where morality means do whatever the heck you like -just don't break the law.

92

Does Morality Exist?

by Fisherman in

some people believe that stealing, lying and killing, is not moral.

some people don't.. does morality exist?

if so, prove it..

Fisherman

Your question is a lot like asking "does health exist?"

Health is the opposite of disease. Some diseases are heart disease, kidney, infectious, autoimmune, poor eye vision, genetic disorders, chronic pain, broken limb, depression, etc.

So, the state of unhealth exists and health is the opposite of this. Does every human suffer from some health problem even in the tiny least? Yes. Some are in excellent health, some in good health, and some in poor health but no one is in 100 percent perfect health. But it can be shown what health is not. When does a person have a healthy kidney? When it functions within acceptable parameters. When is a person healthy? When he functions within acceptable parameters.

17

J.W.'s reliance on Matthew 24:14

by The Fall Guy in

virtually every j.w.

will gladly tell you that matthew 24:14 proves that only they are god's true people/religion, because they are the only people preaching the good news worldwide today.

crucially, they double-down on this lame bet by adding that their worldwide preaching proves another wtbts teaching, namely, that we are living in "the last days.

Fisherman

This generation will not pass away.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/killing-jesus/articles/how-did-the-apostles-die/

The good news began to be preached 2000+ years ago, and if I am correct it continued to be preached after 70 AD. Then according to wt, another good news of the kingdom or a continuation began to be preached circa 1914 for 103 years and going. In the minds of JW it is challenging to reconcile why the end has not come with heaven and earth stil around -no loss of faith though. It is hard to believe though that the preaching will last another 10 years using 1914 as a reference. Using 1914 as a reference, the party is over and the fat lady should be singing at any moment. If the fat lady doesn't sing any time soon, and I mean within days or months or so, then "Houston, we have a problem." - But that's only how I see it. Something has to give.