“Just like Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness..” —The copper serpent was on a pole without a crossbeam. Given that the Bible is true, the irony of the Bible would have Jesus implaled juxtaposition all the crosses that are used in heathen worship. So, until empirical evidence proves different, the cross was not the device used to kill Jesus as the JW see it.
Fisherman
JoinedPosts by Fisherman
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The Cross in Pompeii & Herculaneum in 79 AD
by Sea Breeze incan someone please tell the wt janitor to turn the lights off when the last jw leaves the watchtower after learning that early christians used the cross as a christian logo of sorts?
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1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
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Fisherman
Why be a JW at all if that is the case?
For the same reason, why be an Apostle if you were destined to be crucified or beheaded. Because even if things don’t add up to the point of dilemma, you are otherwise convinced.
And such a dilemma does not invalidate the evidence that convinced you .—Which is in other words more or less what Slim stated in his comment about the overlap.
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122
1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
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Fisherman
So even now, teaching that living JW are not part of the Great Crowd because they may die of old age goes against JW beliefs
because although JW may have been wrong in the past about OS that died of old age being part of the GC, today’s OS are part of the great crowd because the end is believed to come in their lifetime so OS=GC —unless they die.
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122
1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
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Fisherman
The two groups are considered to be identical (or nearly so) in the Christian era
TD
This is true. Even now, older ones still figure they are part of the Great Crowd and haven’t thought about it and don’t comprehend they were never part of the GC. It was always taught or believed to be true that JW were part of the GC unless they died for some reason. Even the classification prospective member of the great crowd was interpreted as: that although they were part of the crowd, it depended on not dying before the GT. So, JW believe they are part of the GC because they believe the end will come in their life time and if the end doesn’t or didn’t come in their lifetime or died of other caused, they were prospective members. The Insight Book definition I quoted in a previous post clarifies the identity of the great crowd—to be compared with personal and other beliefs. But if you are looking for a major wt study article explaining the whole thing, JW don’t do things like that. Sometimes they do but sometimes wt gradually or subtly makes change such as the Awake article on earthquakes as sign of the last days and the Insight Book explaining the length of a creative yom.
As Slim pointed out though, the doctrine is that the GC survives into the Millennium. A conclusion derived from the doctrine is that JW are part of the GC even before the great tribulation because “logically” the gc could not have appeared out of nowhere. But I agree TD, JW OS after 1935 have always believed they we’re GC.
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122
1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
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Fisherman
The generation meaning has to be a group of people and not a time period.
I don’t see much of difference in the context of the return of Christ.
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122
1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
-
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Fisherman
Waton, WT definition of the great crowd I quoted is exactly what Slim replied to TD. Slim doesn’t argue whether or not wt doctrines are valid but only that wrong wt beliefs about the great crowd don’t invalidate their definition of the GC thereby needing a change as TD was suggesting.
Regarding your interpretation of the Bible, there are many interpretations. We have to wait and see how everything plays out.
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122
1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
-
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Fisherman
This is how WT defines “the great crowd” in the publication Insight Book:
“The sum of the evidence, therefore, points to the “great crowd” as representing all those persons who are not of the heavenly “bride” class, or 144,000 sealed ones, but who stand approved at the time of the “great tribulation” and are preserved alive on earth.” —Insight on the Scriptures
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122
1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
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Fisherman
140 years. As far as i am concerned- these are all "last days" and to the point, it should NOT last that long.
LOL, chewy chewy tootsie roll But even while analyst JW see there is a problem it doesn’t really affect their faith because they are convinced.
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122
1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
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Fisherman
“1914 is completely, entirely, absolutely a "history book" date - no one alive can recount their own "1914 experiences".
It is reasonable to conclude that the signs of the last days Jesus gave were for the benefit of individual Christians living in the last days but since most of those 1914 individuals that died of old age are of the anointed class, they got resurrected ( according to JW) right away so they are alive in heaven and see from there.But since the Sign of Jesus Return prophecy is about experiencing the last days on the planet earth it is reasonable to conclude it should all happen within a real individual’s lifetime—which is TD’s point about the Great Crowd.
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122
1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
-
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Fisherman
Waton you seem to be missing the point. Based on the latest understanding of how some parts of prophecy might not have a greater fulfillment, this could apply to 1914 generation fulfillment.
How long a generation is, is the only issue here because regardless of identity, Last Days shouldn’t reasonably last hundreds of years.