Fisherman

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Posts by Fisherman

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  17

  You're DISFELLOWSHIPPED, Please---DON'T CONTACT US, Until You Return to Jehovah's Organization!

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just heard this story from one of my relatives.

  i'm leaving a lot of things out.. a jw couple had three kids and raised them in the religion.

  the oldest one got disfellowshipped at 18 years of age because he committed fornication with a jw girl.

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  Fisherman

  The problem is JW standards are hypocritical.

  Again, that is subjective. You miss the point. Like everybody else JW have the legal right to do whatever they like as long as they aren’t breaking the law.
  
  
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  36

  Could end of November be special?

  by Kosonen in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  did you know that noah entered the ark in the end part of november and also that jesus' followers flead jerusalem around 25th of november 66ce?.

  could it be that a significant group of jehovah's witnesses would begin to flee to the "wilderness" in the end of november?

  revelation 12 speaks about a flight of a symbolic woman to a wilderness.

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  Fisherman

  According to JW belief at this time, fleeing is symbolic meaning putting all faith in God for salvation and not depending on location so it wouldn’t matter what physical location a person may be at and would not need to flee to a different physical location to be saved by God.
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  17

  You're DISFELLOWSHIPPED, Please---DON'T CONTACT US, Until You Return to Jehovah's Organization!

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just heard this story from one of my relatives.

  i'm leaving a lot of things out.. a jw couple had three kids and raised them in the religion.

  the oldest one got disfellowshipped at 18 years of age because he committed fornication with a jw girl.

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  Fisherman

  Whether shunning a df son or daughter because of being df is morally good or bad is subjective. The issue is whether it is legal . It is legal for a parent to get a restraining order against a son. It is legal to separate families by putting someone in jail for a crime. It is also legal in some States to execute someone’s son or daughter for a crime that merits the death penalty. Is any of this good or bad depends on personal opinion. JW beliefs and practices are based on JW standards. Many people feel that Roe v. Wade is bad but it is the law of the land whether people feel it is morally wrong or not. JW also have the legal right as any other religious entity to practice their religion to df and shun someone.
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  5

  Criminal court case in The Netherlands against shunning - possible jail time for WT leaders

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/q5bgg5/criminal_court_case_in_the_netherlands_against/.

  "ex witnesses open attack on traumatizing shunning policy".

  this follows on the successful court case in belgium against shunning.. since this is a criminal case, the wt leaders could end up in jail in the netherlands.. multiple articles tomorrow on this topic by renowned dutch newspaper trouw.. https://www.trouw.nl/a-b51d237a.

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  Fisherman

  I think it`s a no go zone for the law to get involved in IMHO .

  Depends on the country. Canada had that big case on JW DF that went all the way up to the Supreme Court. It could have gone either way. Any country can go the other way.
  
  
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  5

  Criminal court case in The Netherlands against shunning - possible jail time for WT leaders

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/q5bgg5/criminal_court_case_in_the_netherlands_against/.

  "ex witnesses open attack on traumatizing shunning policy".

  this follows on the successful court case in belgium against shunning.. since this is a criminal case, the wt leaders could end up in jail in the netherlands.. multiple articles tomorrow on this topic by renowned dutch newspaper trouw.. https://www.trouw.nl/a-b51d237a.

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  Fisherman

  In all fairness, is there a difference between when a church expels a member such as the Mormons and the JW for wrongful conduct and the government when they prosecute and jail individuals or enjoin them with restraining orders or when they proscribe rules of conduct in Court rooms and in other places or when individuals are trespassed, or families are separated when someone is jailed, etc?
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  122

  1995 generation change

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.

  it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.

  with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.

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  Fisherman

  wt makes the deliberate mistake again to call today's jws "

  It is axiomatic that if one of today’s JW dies, the individual is not part of GC when such dies—according to the teaching that the GC survives into the Millennium on earth. What WT seems to imply though is that today’s JW are the GC collectively and will survive the GT. WT is asserting that today’s JW is the GC described in the book of Rev, the only group that will survive and that the GT will come in their lifetime. That is the implication without actually saying it. That is what JW can conclude.
  
  
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  18

  The Cross in Pompeii & Herculaneum in 79 AD

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can someone please tell the wt janitor to turn the lights off when the last jw leaves the watchtower after learning that early christians used the cross as a christian logo of sorts?

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  Fisherman

  “Just like Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness..” —The copper serpent was on a pole without a crossbeam. Given that the Bible is true, the irony of the Bible would have Jesus implaled juxtaposition all the crosses that are used in heathen worship. So, until empirical evidence proves different, the cross was not the device used to kill Jesus as the JW see it.
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  122

  1995 generation change

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.

  it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.

  with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.

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  Fisherman

  Why be a JW at all if that is the case?

  For the same reason, why be an Apostle if you were destined to be crucified or beheaded. Because even if things don’t add up to the point of dilemma, you are otherwise convinced.

  And such a dilemma does not invalidate the evidence that convinced you .—Which is in other words more or less what Slim stated in his comment about the overlap.
  
  
• 
  122

  1995 generation change

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.

  it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.

  with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.

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  Fisherman

  So even now, teaching that living JW are not part of the Great Crowd because they may die of old age goes against JW beliefs

  because although JW may have been wrong in the past about OS that died of old age being part of the GC, today’s OS are part of the great crowd because the end is believed to come in their lifetime so OS=GC —unless they die.
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  122

  1995 generation change

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.

  it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.

  with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.

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  Fisherman

  The two groups are considered to be identical (or nearly so) in the Christian era

  TD

  This is true. Even now, older ones still figure they are part of the Great Crowd and haven’t thought about it and don’t comprehend they were never part of the GC. It was always taught or believed to be true that JW were part of the GC unless they died for some reason. Even the classification prospective member of the great crowd was interpreted as: that although they were part of the crowd, it depended on not dying before the GT. So, JW believe they are part of the GC because they believe the end will come in their life time and if the end doesn’t or didn’t come in their lifetime or died of other caused, they were prospective members. The Insight Book definition I quoted in a previous post clarifies the identity of the great crowd—to be compared with personal and other beliefs. But if you are looking for a major wt study article explaining the whole thing, JW don’t do things like that. Sometimes they do but sometimes wt gradually or subtly makes change such as the Awake article on earthquakes as sign of the last days and the Insight Book explaining the length of a creative yom.

  As Slim pointed out though, the doctrine is that the GC survives into the Millennium. A conclusion derived from the doctrine is that JW are part of the GC even before the great tribulation because “logically” the gc could not have appeared out of nowhere. But I agree TD, JW OS after 1935 have always believed they we’re GC.