Posts by Fisherman

31

Does the WTS have a clergy class

by blondie in

jw
friends

this can be confusing because the wts has adjusted from not having a clergy class to not having a "paid" clergy class.. "a congregation of brothers precludes having a proud clergy class that honors itself with high-sounding titles and elevates itself above a laity" wt 6/1/2001 p. 12, pp 11. still same idea in 2021 wt october, p. 20, pp.

7, but 2022 in the wt publication, frequently asked questions about jehovah’s witnesses, page 13, the wts inserts "paid" in front of "clergy perhaps to shore up their current statement in secular courts they have clergy, just not paid) "following the model of first-century christianity, jehovah’s witnesses have no clergy-laity division.

all baptized witnesses are ordained ministers and share in the preaching and teaching work.

Fisherman

paid" in front of "clergy perhaps to shore up their current statement in secular courts they have clergy, just not paid)

JW elders are not paid and are not clergy like the clergy of christendom either and the term paid clergy does not have to imply that JW have an unpaid clergy. It could simply mean that JW don’t have a clergy and that their ministers don't get paid as the clergy of christendom does. JW have stated on Court that they don’t have a clergy class. However, the law has applied the term clergy to JW elders when the law defines the term as any ordained minister, rabbi, or priest. The term can also mean the paid clergy of christendom. That’s what the Courts and legal proceedings are for, to interpret the law.

40

Congregation in PA sues over mandatory reporting

by Corney in

ivy hill congregation of jehovah's witnesses is currently suing the pa department of human services.

it requests "a declaration that its elders are entitled to" clergy privilege, or, in the alternative,.

to the extent that the clergyman privilege is determined to exclude its elders on the basis that they are "members of [a] religious organization[] in which members other than the leader thereof are deemed clergymen or ministers," the court declare the statute to be unconstitutional.

Fisherman

WTS is being deceitful, hiding behind the label "clergy." at the same time saying they are not a clergy.

The term clergy used in laws may represent all ordained ministers of a religious system including JW Elders that are not clergy as JWs view themselves, or it could mean the clergy of aka “Christendom” which the JW claim they are not part of. It is up to the Courts to interpret the law and apply the laws with the term clergy to the JW. That is not being deceitful.

49

Start of the Great Tribulation will be announced soon

by joey jojo in

at the 2021 annual meeting, samuel herd revealed new light and claimed the anointed will all have passed away before armageddon.

it has since been revealed that while they will die before armageddon, there will be some anointed still around that will witness the start of the great tribulation.. so the question is, how many years until the existing members of the governing body have passed away?.

im not a doctor, but based on their age and various stages of obesity, im thinking 10- 15 years- give or take, sounds about right.. with that in mind, the great tribulation could be announced any day.. the new understanding has now freed the org from the burden of having to identify a particular generation in relation to the date of armageddon.

Fisherman

Can you elaborate?

Hi Ozzi,

Does everybody goes to heaven?

40

Congregation in PA sues over mandatory reporting

by Corney in

ivy hill congregation of jehovah's witnesses is currently suing the pa department of human services.

it requests "a declaration that its elders are entitled to" clergy privilege, or, in the alternative,.

to the extent that the clergyman privilege is determined to exclude its elders on the basis that they are "members of [a] religious organization[] in which members other than the leader thereof are deemed clergymen or ministers," the court declare the statute to be unconstitutional.

Fisherman

Most often, confession is not sought within the congregation. More often, an accusation is made a 3rd party, the accused confesses or doesnt. This does not seem to meet the threshold of privlieged communication, but IANAL

Ecclesiastical communications involving the adjudication of sin are protected. The JW religious system is a legal church and they consider communications by congregants involving sins (which may also be crimes) as ecclesiastical. Because the entire church process from the accusation of sin to the church proceedings in their judicial committees and further process involving other religious authorities up at the watchtower is defined as part of religious beliefs and practice by the JW religion, such communications can be considered as protected by the government.

A person goes to the. church to accuse someone of sin. A person goes to the police to accuse someone of a crime. However, mandatory reporting laws compel church authorities to report specific conduct to law enforcement and if they don’t they are breaking the law. But if they do the church can also be violating confidentiality protected by law—which is also breaking the law. Eliminate then the laws that protect criminal’s confidentiality to church and why stop there, eliminate confidentiality between criminals and lawyers.

If the government wants to dissolve church confidentiality and church jurisdiction over sins that are crimes or the human right for spiritual help, the reconciliation with God etc. That is that. But that is a breach of the separation of church and State. By the same token, the government can assume the role of the church like in theocratic governments of the middle east and dictate morality and prosecute immorality.

So the government is protected by 2 concurrent laws, one that abolishes the confidentiality rights of criminals in a church and another that by the same token protects the confidentiality rights of criminals in a church. On the other hand the same criminal enjoys confidentiality with his lawyer. Don’t be a minister or a lawyer if you want to help people or be a minister or a lawyer if you want to help people.

49

Start of the Great Tribulation will be announced soon

by joey jojo in

at the 2021 annual meeting, samuel herd revealed new light and claimed the anointed will all have passed away before armageddon.

it has since been revealed that while they will die before armageddon, there will be some anointed still around that will witness the start of the great tribulation.. so the question is, how many years until the existing members of the governing body have passed away?.

im not a doctor, but based on their age and various stages of obesity, im thinking 10- 15 years- give or take, sounds about right.. with that in mind, the great tribulation could be announced any day.. the new understanding has now freed the org from the burden of having to identify a particular generation in relation to the date of armageddon.

Fisherman

how did I , how did WE ever believe this stuff ?

Ozzie

Because the logic is so convincing. It still is if we think about it.

40

Congregation in PA sues over mandatory reporting

by Corney in

ivy hill congregation of jehovah's witnesses is currently suing the pa department of human services.

it requests "a declaration that its elders are entitled to" clergy privilege, or, in the alternative,.

to the extent that the clergyman privilege is determined to exclude its elders on the basis that they are "members of [a] religious organization[] in which members other than the leader thereof are deemed clergymen or ministers," the court declare the statute to be unconstitutional.

Fisherman

those secular systems are having their eyes opened.

Secular law doesn’t have jurisdiction to define ecclesiastical confidentiality which according to JW is within disclosing penitent confession to other church authorities for further church process. Secular law only protects penitent communications to be disclosed and used as evidence against the penitent based on a rules for evidence standard. The legal doctrine is that someone going to a minister for spiritual help should be legally free to do so without fear of being prosecuted. This human basic need to get spiritual help would be denied if spiritual healers would betray confidentiality to law enforcement for criminal prosecution.

27

Oct 8 1966 Awake! PDF-- pushes 1975 date

by cabasilas in

details about how to download the october 8, 1966 awake!

magazine pdf will appear at the end of this post.

background.

Fisherman

Hello Bondie! Didn’t know that my dumb posts and presence again here would bring you back. Happy to see you.

Don’t forget the Eternal Purpose and Freedom sons of God but the Scriptures Inspired said creation of Eve was an unknown variable off the top of my head. There are two versions of the Scriptures Inspired Book, one after 75.

Like length of generation, 75 convinced JW that “the end” was going to come—and we still believe the end is “imminent” as long as wt teaches it. Even if wt didn’t it is hard to let go anyway.

The way 75 was presented in the literature, people had to conclude that the end was coming. If 75 was presented in the literature back in that time the way it is presented now, people wouldn’t have been convinced in their minds and hearts back then about 1975 that the millennial rule of christ would begin around 1975 as the end of 6000 years including Eve would converge with length of 1914 generation prophecy filling the gap for the time Eve was created. How could you conclude otherwise using these 2 valid dates based on irrefutable Bible chronology which is based on empirical archeological evidence, the fall of Babylon. But nothing happened, now what?

JW faith in God and Bible prophecy ( not its interpretation) is more solid than the belief in scientific realism am empirical science regardless of any falsification of wt interpretation of the Bible.

49

Start of the Great Tribulation will be announced soon

by joey jojo in

at the 2021 annual meeting, samuel herd revealed new light and claimed the anointed will all have passed away before armageddon.

it has since been revealed that while they will die before armageddon, there will be some anointed still around that will witness the start of the great tribulation.. so the question is, how many years until the existing members of the governing body have passed away?.

im not a doctor, but based on their age and various stages of obesity, im thinking 10- 15 years- give or take, sounds about right.. with that in mind, the great tribulation could be announced any day.. the new understanding has now freed the org from the burden of having to identify a particular generation in relation to the date of armageddon.

Fisherman

self-declare you are special"

Simon,

Granted that anybody can make that claim that they are anointed—and who knows whether the claim is true.

But the Bible does say that there is an elite group that goes to heaven whoever they are and that not everyone goes to heaven. Whether or not the Bible is true and whether or not the JW so called anointed class is real, the Bible says that the Apostles and others go to heaven.

40

Congregation in PA sues over mandatory reporting

by Corney in

ivy hill congregation of jehovah's witnesses is currently suing the pa department of human services.

it requests "a declaration that its elders are entitled to" clergy privilege, or, in the alternative,.

to the extent that the clergyman privilege is determined to exclude its elders on the basis that they are "members of [a] religious organization[] in which members other than the leader thereof are deemed clergymen or ministers," the court declare the statute to be unconstitutional.

Fisherman

What federal law?

Look up Federal rules of evidence and Chief Justice Berger.

21

Vicarious Liability: Court of Appeal dismisses appeal from religious organisation following sexual assault

by yalbmert99 in

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=d0a1ca63-2027-4702-9f6d-3c3da5fd9c5f.

Fisherman

vicarious liability wasn't a contentious issue at all.

Sure it was. That was the whole point. WT claimed it was not responsible.