Posts by Fisherman

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

I am a JW. I am convinced that God’s Holy Spirit is “operative” upon JW exclusively leading to the conclusion that JW is God’s agency. I also believe that 607 BCE is the date of destruction of Jerusalem. That is my personal belief and conclusion based upon personal study and understanding of the Bible. It is a matter of fact that JW have abandoned past teachings such as all of the anointed make up the FDS, a yomg universe and earth and other teachings but that doesn’t un-convince me that God is with and backs up JW. Jesus said: “ Nobody comes to the Father except through me!” That is to say, Christianity, JW religion. What JW individuals experience is a relationship with God (sooner or later) The role of JW I believe is to help bring people to God and get to the point of a relationship with God. God is using the JW organization to do that. That is what I believe. There is a human element in all of this and sin and propensities and that causes a lot of problems but nothing can un-convince that the org has God’s backing and one’s relationship with God, even if you get into trouble or get angry or if teachings change because it is about your relationship with God in your life. Nothing else is important. You are just waiting for God to take action and bring relief. Sadly there are problems inside JW religion same as in Jesus’s day. JW, at least me isn’t looking foward to see people’s demise at the great tribulation, hopefully pe JW will help people find God and can say. Done everything I could. That’s what I think JW is about. Sadly a lot of JW have good reasons to get angry and as a result leave.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Fisherman

Jeffro, I didn’t resort to fallacy to undermine and deflect the solstice information you posted. I thanked you for kindly posting it. It is very interesting. If you have more info such as the info I asked for either post or explain. Scholar is the one debating your evidence with you. I just want to see how much and how valid. I will also read the info in your site. I form my own views. I don’t need your rhetoric because it has zero effect on my methodology of ascertaining facts. If you don’t like the wt, that’s another topic. The subject that I am interested in if you want my audience is the -568 and -588 skies ss it relates to vat 4956. That is it. WT religious belief is scientifically immaterial. (Obviously, you understand that wt belief in -607 is solely derived from Bible interpretation and nor science.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Fisherman

The specific astronomy software used and endorsed by the Watch Tower Society’s

How does this validate the algorithm?

Still waiting for Fisherman to present any kind of evidence whatsoever for any part of his own (borrowed) view.

How does this endorse a -568 sky?

63

Evolution is a Fact #27 - Monkeys, Typewriters, Shakespeare, 747s etc.

by cofty in

most creationist arguments can be summarised as "complexity, complexity, complexity - therefore god".

we have all heard the illustrations about the odds of (insert favourite example) evolving, being less than 10,000 monkeys typing macbeth by pure chance.

evolution is not like that.

Fisherman

Most creationist arguments can be summarised as "complexity, complexity, complexity - therefore god"

The issue with the theory of evolution is that it cannot explain how the mechanism of evolution evolved or how it started or what drives it or how the drive started or evolved. And impossible in such a short period of time. Like drawing a random straight flush thousands or billions of times in a row from a deck of cards.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Fisherman

You continue to expect answers from everyone else, having provided no evidence for any of your own claims,

The onus is on you to show that science proves -588. I don’t see how your rhetoric validates -588.

It seems to me that the related algorithm should be based on a modern day observed sky or on a proven sky or an explanation of how the -588 results have been derived would help persuade the ciel cart results . It also needs to be proven that Neb’s 37th year is in fact his 37th year and that the Bible date of Neb’s 18th year at destruction of Jerusalem have the same basis.

In other words, we need to know for a fact the true -588/-568 sky. You have failed to prove that on this thread. We need to know if Neb’s 18th an 37th year have the same common denominator. We also need to know the year of the vat 4956 sky which you show is -588 according to your non validated algorithm describing a circa June 29 solstice.

Thus far your presents are interesting but not persuasive enough to convince.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Fisherman

honest readers who might also want to know about the method used

Thanks again for kindly posting the data and its source. State the facts and answer the questions if you like and let everybody believe what they like. Don’t get so upset and emotional about it.

I don’t remember reading your solstice argument anywhere before but it has been many years since I’ve I really focused on this -607 topic which you are highlighting solstice . I have some questions about the computation and algorithm that derives the date of the solstice. Are these results written in stone or are there tolerances and variables of error and is the programming based on belief or fact? I am not attempting to undermine the integrity of the program. For example as you already know, we JW believe -607 based on our interpretation of Bible chronology not based on science or archeology although using them to try to give support to our interpretations and JW publish not only our beliefs but also how and why. I know in the past, WT challenged c14 dating and stand firm on Noah’s flood based on validation by JC vis-à-vis scientific interpretation of geology, etc.

—But my above commentary is immaterial to what can be concluded from the evidence for and against -588/-568 which is my only interest under this thread.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Fisherman

Jeffro

Thanks for the data.

How do you know or by what authority are the actual dates of the solstices for -568/-588?

How is the solstice in vat 4956 extrapolated?

(I think what you are trying to show is the mismatch between the scientifically established solstice for -568 (location ancient Bavel) and the other scientific solstice dated -588 for the same location compared to the extrapolated date of vat 4956 should correspond with or be in phase with the correct or actual solstice? In other words, using the scientifically established -568 solstice, vat 4956 solstice is in phase with 568?) The opinion of we JW is that the related vat describes -588. You have not replied to wt 2011 moon phases described in the vat in phase with -588 and out of phase with -568 in support of -588.

Also since you like going off into tangents, show how you have answered my questions before and not where you've posted information claiming that the information answers my questions. Show how any disingenuousness asserted by you I have affects the validity of your information and also show the relevance of your remarks —now that we are were are wasting time with your personal feelings. These diversion tactics of yours evade the questions and attempts to color your argument the way you feel unless you can explain how you feelings substantiate the data. Let’s continue to waste time with fallacy on this posting your dumbass rhetoric and responding to it and stop focusing on the subject.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Fisherman

An eclipse that is explicitly 6 days after the solstice cannot occur on 15 July, for the same reason that the solstice cannot occur on 9 July.

Why is that?

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Fisherman

Not the question I ask. I am asking for the benefit of everyone following your debate with scholar in simple terms why was it physically impossible for the lunar eclipse to have occurred as wt sees it. Your explanation.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Fisherman

Jeffro although obvious to you and to others. A lot of people can’t grasp why it is physically impossible.

This is a very very interesting point. You should explain