scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
If God's Holy Spirit is operating exclusively to the conclusion that JW is God's agency, why has God's Holy Spirit operated in such a way that false prophesies, ever changing lies, twisting of Scriptures and false doctrines were and are being published?
I don’t see it that way. I have shared with you what I am personally convinced is true, not open to debate. You can believe different.
scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
they debate on this forum, which is "verboten" to faithful JWs.
I never would have even lurked sua sponte. I was hoodwinked in here by a trusted JW friend. Once inside what I read from the posters was very challenging at first. I hadn’t considered the logic and some posters were so funny I couldn’t stop laughing. I was very confrontational at first because what I read was so shocking but Simon tolerated it and kindly let me stay.
It ain’t the messenger, it is the message so the posted information either had basis or were lies and I couldn’t just pretend I didn’t read it so I had to in all fairness and objectivity investigate and get to the bottom of this to satisfy my mind. There are a lot of interesting discussions and information here so I stayed. My approach in this forum is not directly as a defense attorney of JW school of thought but as a truth finding forum publicly evaluating JW stuff and having fun having academic discussions with a lot of smart people about other stuff too. Some substances are a matter of fact others are interpretation of facts and others are beliefs or schools of thoughts. My school of thought is JW.
I view DF from the position of the heart of a father that wants his son back and not as an elder brother that competes. Or a penal code that is crafted to punish. Believe as you wish and leave me alone on how I like to practice JW religion. You don't like it, too bad is what I tell people when they start scrutinizing my JW conduct.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Except you won't, will you
What do you know. I’ve studied your evidence here, COJ book, etc. Scholar has done so scholastically.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Prove it.
It is how JW interpret the Bible. It is our belief. As you know, WT publishes the reasons, our explanation. I have already explained this to you.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
The scholarly consensus is already that VAT 4956 refers to events in 568 BCE.
And Wt has it’s own scholars conclusions. End of story.
Indeed. It is physically impossible for the reference to the solstice in VAT 4956 to refer to the solstice of 588 BCE
Based on the algorithm, authenticity of the vat, and 37th year and 18th year have a common denominator which you haven’t proven. You sound like the Islamics everything must be true when scholars believe it is.
This is a red herring.
No it is not.
However, the Bible also does not support JW interpretations about Babylon's 70 years.
It does. Believe as you wish.
Believe as you wish.
You haven’t authenticated the vat. You haven shown Nebs 18th and 37th year are related by a common denominator and you haven’t explained the accuracy of tge algorithm used. You are useless except for the solstice info that scholar seems to accept as true.
Ergo I will do my own research and form my own opinions. But you haven’t proven your case on this thread. Your evidence in unsubstantiated here because yiu failed to explain it. I will do my own investigation. My findings according to the information you presented is that there is reasonable doubt. Thank yiu for taking the time to post the soltice photos with hightights
You are dismissed.
scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
1 Active and believe
2 same answer as scholar
As scholar pointed out, it is not a pointless debate. The word pointed occurs 2x in the Bible 1: In Ezekiel when Nebuchanezzar resorts to uncanny power using a liver and God causes it to point to Jerusalem at the fork on the road. 2. Jesus reference to pointed stakes surrounding Jerusalem in prophecy was also an allusion to the first destruction. Also, 1914, the Parousia, The appointed times of the nations, the establishment of God’s kingdom in the heavens are all based on the date of the destruction of Jerusalem in BCE.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
I’ve seen no evidence that you have a methodology. In fact I’ve seen no evidence about anything from you at all.
The onus is on you to prove your case that vat 4956 sky is -568 if your approach is to argue. I am not trying to personally discredit you. I am only interested in facts or explanation. If you have nothing more to add, I must say your information is interesting. Thanks again for your posts. I haven’t seen that scholar added anything more to falsify -568 solstice. I want to add as an end point that wt doesn’t use the vat to extrapolate -607, only Bible interpretation.
scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.
do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?
if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?
I am a JW. I am convinced that God’s Holy Spirit is “operative” upon JW exclusively leading to the conclusion that JW is God’s agency. I also believe that 607 BCE is the date of destruction of Jerusalem. That is my personal belief and conclusion based upon personal study and understanding of the Bible. It is a matter of fact that JW have abandoned past teachings such as all of the anointed make up the FDS, a yomg universe and earth and other teachings but that doesn’t un-convince me that God is with and backs up JW. Jesus said: “ Nobody comes to the Father except through me!” That is to say, Christianity, JW religion. What JW individuals experience is a relationship with God (sooner or later) The role of JW I believe is to help bring people to God and get to the point of a relationship with God. God is using the JW organization to do that. That is what I believe. There is a human element in all of this and sin and propensities and that causes a lot of problems but nothing can un-convince that the org has God’s backing and one’s relationship with God, even if you get into trouble or get angry or if teachings change because it is about your relationship with God in your life. Nothing else is important. You are just waiting for God to take action and bring relief. Sadly there are problems inside JW religion same as in Jesus’s day. JW, at least me isn’t looking foward to see people’s demise at the great tribulation, hopefully pe JW will help people find God and can say. Done everything I could. That’s what I think JW is about. Sadly a lot of JW have good reasons to get angry and as a result leave.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro, I didn’t resort to fallacy to undermine and deflect the solstice information you posted. I thanked you for kindly posting it. It is very interesting. If you have more info such as the info I asked for either post or explain. Scholar is the one debating your evidence with you. I just want to see how much and how valid. I will also read the info in your site. I form my own views. I don’t need your rhetoric because it has zero effect on my methodology of ascertaining facts. If you don’t like the wt, that’s another topic. The subject that I am interested in if you want my audience is the -568 and -588 skies ss it relates to vat 4956. That is it. WT religious belief is scientifically immaterial. (Obviously, you understand that wt belief in -607 is solely derived from Bible interpretation and nor science.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
The specific astronomy software used and endorsed by the Watch Tower Society’s
How does this validate the algorithm?
Still waiting for Fisherman to present any kind of evidence whatsoever for any part of his own (borrowed) view.
How does this endorse a -568 sky?
