Posts by Fisherman

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

Notsurewheretogo

The direction mentioned in the May 2013 WT is one of these things they could get wrong?

You shouldn’t conclude too much from this alert. All it is saying is that if a directive is given that doesn’t make sense, the brothers have your best interests in ming and they know what they are doing. Free to choose to do what you want but be forewarned.

You are told to follow everything the GB says yet as the Feb 2017 WT says they can be wrong, thoughts?

GB gives directives and counsel which they themselves follow which is supposed to be for the good of all. It is not only good advice but they have also have other information and God’s HS besides which leads them to give directions for the good of all. Take for example BT and aids and other infections. How many blood banks were dispensing infectious blood. Not debating that some people were saved using BT. Sexual immorality and infectious disease. Going to a psychiatrist without a mental disorder and then you have a mental health history they use against you for the rest of your life. What WT is saying is you need to trust. You are free to make your own choice. Not open for debate. Do as you choose.

you believe and stand by 607 BCE despite the mass amount of evidence to the contrary but you are not going to change your mind on that subject but can you then answer the above questions?

I’ve pointed out he difference between mass amount of evidence and interpretation of evidence. JW is a religion. It’s foundation claims to be JC and the Bible not scientific explanations and conclusions. Take for example Bible chronology compared to ancient fossils and other interpretations of evidence challenging the historicity of Noah’s flood, we believe the Bible and we believe Noah’s flood because JC validated it. According to the Bible, JC credentials were validated empirically with direct proof from God. So, JW have another variable that we factor in: God. Obviously, God must have provided to the witnesses some iota of evidence to build on and testify about. JW have made this claim. Which is why the interpretation of scientific evidence alone doesn’t falsify -607. However, -607 is Bible interpretation and so is 1914.

How does any believing JW believe the GB are appointed by God to lead and be his representative when they admit and have shown they are clearly wrong in teachings, doctrine and policies YET still demand that you do everything they say no matter how crazy in the future it may seem.

Why is God good when he allows evil?

Why did he allow king David to kill Uriah and why after such an outrage did he trust him to lead Israel and marry Uriah’s wife and have children with her becoming ancestors of JC? Why did God allow the evil kings of Israel to represent him? Why idolatry, ancient Israel were God’s covenant people and not other nations ? Why did God use his spirit to prophecy through Caiphas who was putting JC to death.,Why where tte Jews God continued people even when believing erroneous information such as the wrong meaning of the disgusting thing causing desolation, Greek philosophy, etc, etc. It did not disqualify them.

Were the Israelites Gods chosen? yes Was JC the Messiah yes Is the Bible the word of God yes Is JW God’s exclusive agency on earth yes. How do you know for sure? : Each person must come to his own personal conclusion. But not everything is ironed out so after you are convinced every time there is a problem or something doesn’t add up, do you become unconvinced and want to leave JW and go live a life according to your hearts desire, what you really want to do?

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

Can you tell me what Joel 3:2 is describing and if it has been fulfilled yet?

No. Although WT has abandoned the typical anti typical rule applying to every single prophecy, some prophecies have more than one fulfillment. In the Insight Book under the Topic Jehoshaphat explains this verse is symbolic to mean God’s judging the nations for mistreating JW. The topic doesn’t say much more. Also, God doesn’t talk to me or to other JW dictating the meaning of the verse. My belief is only interpretation or commentary on what the verse means.

Can you tell me if according to the Scriptures in Rev below, are the trumpets blown in chronological order and if the 42-months take place during the 6th trumpet and are part of what is called the 2nd woe?

I don’t know. Years ago WT published the Rev book commentary on Rev. I don’t know at present how much of that commentary is still believed to be true. I apologize.

Do you/JW's believe the 1,000-year reign began in 1918 and we are 105 years into it?

At present, JW believe that Jesus began ruling in 1914. However, the millennium starts after Armageddon. I don’t know how Revelation is going to play out exactly.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

If God's Holy Spirit is operating exclusively to the conclusion that JW is God's agency, why has God's Holy Spirit operated in such a way that false prophesies, ever changing lies, twisting of Scriptures and false doctrines were and are being published?

I don’t see it that way. I have shared with you what I am personally convinced is true, not open to debate. You can believe different.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

they debate on this forum, which is "verboten" to faithful JWs.

I never would have even lurked sua sponte. I was hoodwinked in here by a trusted JW friend. Once inside what I read from the posters was very challenging at first. I hadn’t considered the logic and some posters were so funny I couldn’t stop laughing. I was very confrontational at first because what I read was so shocking but Simon tolerated it and kindly let me stay.

It ain’t the messenger, it is the message so the posted information either had basis or were lies and I couldn’t just pretend I didn’t read it so I had to in all fairness and objectivity investigate and get to the bottom of this to satisfy my mind. There are a lot of interesting discussions and information here so I stayed. My approach in this forum is not directly as a defense attorney of JW school of thought but as a truth finding forum publicly evaluating JW stuff and having fun having academic discussions with a lot of smart people about other stuff too. Some substances are a matter of fact others are interpretation of facts and others are beliefs or schools of thoughts. My school of thought is JW.

I view DF from the position of the heart of a father that wants his son back and not as an elder brother that competes. Or a penal code that is crafted to punish. Believe as you wish and leave me alone on how I like to practice JW religion. You don't like it, too bad is what I tell people when they start scrutinizing my JW conduct.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Fisherman

Except you won't, will you

What do you know. I’ve studied your evidence here, COJ book, etc. Scholar has done so scholastically.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Fisherman

Prove it.

It is how JW interpret the Bible. It is our belief. As you know, WT publishes the reasons, our explanation. I have already explained this to you.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Fisherman

The scholarly consensus is already that VAT 4956 refers to events in 568 BCE.

And Wt has it’s own scholars conclusions. End of story.

Indeed. It is physically impossible for the reference to the solstice in VAT 4956 to refer to the solstice of 588 BCE

Based on the algorithm, authenticity of the vat, and 37th year and 18th year have a common denominator which you haven’t proven. You sound like the Islamics everything must be true when scholars believe it is.

This is a red herring.

No it is not.

However, the Bible also does not support JW interpretations about Babylon's 70 years.

It does. Believe as you wish.

Believe as you wish.

You haven’t authenticated the vat. You haven shown Nebs 18th and 37th year are related by a common denominator and you haven’t explained the accuracy of tge algorithm used. You are useless except for the solstice info that scholar seems to accept as true.

Ergo I will do my own research and form my own opinions. But you haven’t proven your case on this thread. Your evidence in unsubstantiated here because yiu failed to explain it. I will do my own investigation. My findings according to the information you presented is that there is reasonable doubt. Thank yiu for taking the time to post the soltice photos with hightights

You are dismissed.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

1 Active and believe

2 same answer as scholar

As scholar pointed out, it is not a pointless debate. The word pointed occurs 2x in the Bible 1: In Ezekiel when Nebuchanezzar resorts to uncanny power using a liver and God causes it to point to Jerusalem at the fork on the road. 2. Jesus reference to pointed stakes surrounding Jerusalem in prophecy was also an allusion to the first destruction. Also, 1914, the Parousia, The appointed times of the nations, the establishment of God’s kingdom in the heavens are all based on the date of the destruction of Jerusalem in BCE.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Fisherman

I’ve seen no evidence that you have a methodology. In fact I’ve seen no evidence about anything from you at all.

The onus is on you to prove your case that vat 4956 sky is -568 if your approach is to argue. I am not trying to personally discredit you. I am only interested in facts or explanation. If you have nothing more to add, I must say your information is interesting. Thanks again for your posts. I haven’t seen that scholar added anything more to falsify -568 solstice. I want to add as an end point that wt doesn’t use the vat to extrapolate -607, only Bible interpretation.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

I am a JW. I am convinced that God’s Holy Spirit is “operative” upon JW exclusively leading to the conclusion that JW is God’s agency. I also believe that 607 BCE is the date of destruction of Jerusalem. That is my personal belief and conclusion based upon personal study and understanding of the Bible. It is a matter of fact that JW have abandoned past teachings such as all of the anointed make up the FDS, a yomg universe and earth and other teachings but that doesn’t un-convince me that God is with and backs up JW. Jesus said: “ Nobody comes to the Father except through me!” That is to say, Christianity, JW religion. What JW individuals experience is a relationship with God (sooner or later) The role of JW I believe is to help bring people to God and get to the point of a relationship with God. God is using the JW organization to do that. That is what I believe. There is a human element in all of this and sin and propensities and that causes a lot of problems but nothing can un-convince that the org has God’s backing and one’s relationship with God, even if you get into trouble or get angry or if teachings change because it is about your relationship with God in your life. Nothing else is important. You are just waiting for God to take action and bring relief. Sadly there are problems inside JW religion same as in Jesus’s day. JW, at least me isn’t looking foward to see people’s demise at the great tribulation, hopefully pe JW will help people find God and can say. Done everything I could. That’s what I think JW is about. Sadly a lot of JW have good reasons to get angry and as a result leave.