Posts by Fisherman

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

Liar. The Bible never mentions 70 years of exile.

It does but you don’t like it because JW derive 1914 from 70 so you don’t like 1914 or JW.

You only post believes here but nothing of substance. Nothing. Zero.

f you believe Adam and Eve were real people, and the serpent really spoke to them, do you also believe god made the lot in 6 days?

I believe the Bible says that Adam and Eve were historical people.

WT teaches that the Bible says that God created the universe in 6 time periods that the Bible refers to as “days”. And that the length of each time period is not disclosed in the Bible. And on the 7th day or time period, God proceeded to rest from his creation work. Paul wrote that the 7th day was still ongoing during his time in the 1st century and JW teach that we are still living on God’s rest or 7th day even now. At some point in the future God’s rest will come to an end and so will the 7th day. This had prophetic significance to JW in the past.

It is hard to know for sure what the Bible means. First because the Bible is written in ancient languages that need to be interpreted to a native language of the reader. Even if one knows Bible languages such as Hebrew and Greek, many words and expressions in those Bible languages may have conveyed a different meaning in Bible times. Then you have to interpret what the Bible is implying because some things are literal and some allegorical and some both. The Bible uses expressions such as let the reader use discernment and to him who has ears listen referring to the meaning of passages. JW have beliefs of what the Bible means that others disagree. Therefore just about everything is arguable and you can argue about what word mean, what a prophecy means ir is implying or how it applies and just about everything it says. JW proclaim that God helps us understand the Bible.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

only people who believe everything in the Bible can assess its claims.

Not what I said. For example, the Bible states a flood occurred, Adam and Eve were created and Bible chronology. Obviously that can be challenged with scientific evidence.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

Ps. 14:1 "The foolish one says in his heart; 'There is no Jehovah'".Are you a foolish one?

To the Jew and to the Psalmist it was axiomatic that God exists. To the fool there is no accountability as if there is no Jehovah. The language of the Bible is poetic and ironic and allusory and literary device such as: “They have shut their eyes” and “now it has been secretly hidden from their eyes. Also, the Bible is written for believers. The language is shop talk and poetic language and literary device. The Bible claims to be the word of God and written not not for the unbelievers —but same as any deposition or testimony or document or evidence, it can be examined by anybody. Conclude what you like and go away if you conclude it is fake. But when interpreting the Bible prophecy or claims it is from the position that it is inspired. When interpreting the Bible though for example when a verse relates to when the Bible says that the earth was flooded it is from the position that the flood was true whether or not the truth of the flood is challenged. If the Bible is approached from the position that the Bible is a fake, end of discussion.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Fisherman

But you still accept irrational nonsense (see also ‘sunk cost fallacy’ and ‘appeal to emotion’). That’s worse than believing nonsense simply due to being uninformed.

And you can believe that if that’s what you like to choose. But scholar has shown that it is reasonable to conclude that based on solid -539 and 70 year desolation based on JW valid Bible interpretation is is not nonsense because you don’t like JW. You say it is nonsense but it makes sense and prophetic sense also.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

Do you believe Adam and Eve were real people ?

Jesus refers to them as real: “ Male and female he created them.” So does the rest of the Bible refers to them as historical and not allegory.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

Jeffro cites logical fallacies then misapplies them to my argument.

How do you know for a fact that there aren’t invisible goblins that want your socks.

The comparison is not congruent and neither does does the nonexistence of goblins prove that God cannot exist.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

neither ‘scholar’ nor Fisherman have provided any justification whatsoever for the several ways that JW interpretations about the ‘appointed times of the nations’ and related concepts deviate from what the Bible actually says.

Sure the scholar has only no amount of miracle or proof or reason would convince you. You reject it. You don’t want it. Like a defense attorney fighting for his client’s freedom at a trial, he wants to win and he doesn’t decide what if the burden of prop was met.

I remember the time, according to the Bible, that Jesus performed miracles. Ergo...

Ergo error in logic, Jesus’s miracles were from God. “But if it is with God’s finger..” The purpose of Jesus’s miracles were to prove his credentials.

Like with Moses: “ I have made you God to Pharoh” God was the source of the miracles.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

I think I see why you don’t very often try to construct logical syllogisms. 🤦‍♂️ Your first premise is rejected as unfalsifiable, and your argument is circular because your first premise assumes your conclusion. As to your second premise, it is invalidated by the fact that you attempted a logical proof, which if based on a properly formed syllogism with accepted premises would be proof without empirical evidence. Additionally, the part of your claim that only god can produce a miracle is not supported by your premises. Logically, your argument is rejected. Do try something convincing next time.

Horsefeathers. Your logic is based on a false premise that God does not exist.

Also. to those that conclude that God does not exist. How can you know for a fact that he doesn’t? It is only a belief that he doesn’t. If is plausible that he does. But how could you know something is fact? Not by hearing testimony but only by taking a measurement. You would need to experience God physically and not by logic. The reality of God does not depend on proof. Any evidence natural or supernatural can be rejected like assuming the parting of the Red sea or resurrection of someone from the cemetery . Bible says “they will have to know that I am YHWH” means that people will be compelled to accept the evidence: proof from God in such a way that s person is forced to see and realize and know for a fact that it is coming from God. Only God could fo that.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

Fallacy: begging the question.

God is supernatural and outside the universe not physical. Proof is something empirical. Therefore only God can produce a miracle and God cannot be proven by science or by a person.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Fisherman

The sort of convincing evidence that you seek can only come directly from God.

But no guarantee what you would conclude from such evidence.