Posts by Fisherman

15

And the lion shall eat straw like the ox

by Anony Mous in

the above verse is often quoted by jws both in general as a response to the idea of a deathless paradise and/or those promoting vegetarianism or veganism.. a letter in animal frontiers co-signed by nearly a thousand scientists is now warning that meat is crucial for a healthy lifestyle and livestock farming is too important to 'become the victim of zealotry'.. they stated the fact that most humans require the nutrients from eggs, meat and dairy and that plant based alternatives are at least 4x more expensive (which implies much higher energy consumption in the process) and not scalable and outright dangerous to global health to support a large population shift towards them.. they also called out several recent papers for misleading information and even called for the outright retraction of one that said meat substitutions are a viable alternative.. not sure what the modern jw view on this is, i know many people in the borg promoted it back in the day.

just goes to show that science does not support the notion of a global vegan diet..

Fisherman

The notion that something came out of nothing is utter bullocks unless one is deluded by Krauss’s pseudo-science that nothing is something to begin with. In that case,however, something came out of something -call it nothing. Something must be infinite and that is that.

Given living organisms to begin with and their inherent drive and nature, organisms change and evolve according to empirical science evidence. But the mechanisms and drives and laws and descriptive properties of the universe could not evolve, they must have always existed or created from something; also, substances such as life, consciousness and love and justice and intelligence must always have existed.

Evolution could not evolve on its own. It is an inherent nature of organisms that causes them to change towards adaption and survival. Take for example organisms living at the lowest point in the ocean or in very harsh or acid environments. But you still need a living organism to begin with and the evolution mechanism in it.

The tiger is dressed for the kill. TD pointed out that he couldn’t have been naked in Eden up until the flood. So the question is did they have tigers in Eden and what did they actually eat. And what does the Bible say the tigers ate before the flood

46

Does the WTS have a clergy class (yes-no)

by blondie in

jw
friends

wt 2021 october p.20 "in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

although we respect those who are taking the lead, we accept jesus’ clear teaching: “all of you are brothers.”".

ijbq article 92 point 6: in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

Fisherman

reaping the benefits of "clergy penitent"

Horsefeathers, first of all, elders face judicial committees too and nobodyJW is is laity in JW. And confidentiality laws apply without having a clergy which by definition requires a laity class. Although there is a rank and hierarchy in JW: Brother, Sister, pioneer, ms, elder, co, gb, angel JC, God, there is no clergy and not laity like in christendom who also has laity.

And again when legislation governs clergy, since JW does not legally have a clergy, the Court decides how legislation applies to jw managers who while being in charge are not clergy because any jw male can also be promoted to elder which is not tge case in christendom where members of the laity are separate and cannot hold office whereas every jw is a minister. You are pretending and closing your eyes to facts.

46

Does the WTS have a clergy class (yes-no)

by blondie in

jw
friends

wt 2021 october p.20 "in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

although we respect those who are taking the lead, we accept jesus’ clear teaching: “all of you are brothers.”".

ijbq article 92 point 6: in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

Fisherman

Konagirl:

“Did Jesus Christ, the Head of the Christian congregation, give instructions for his disciples to be divided up into clergy and laity? Nowhere in the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John or in the book of Acts of Apostles or in the book of Revelation are there instructions to split up his disciples into two general classes. His instructions are to the direct contrary. In the temple at Jerusalem, to his disciples and to the crowds of Jews, Jesus said: “But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers. “ —ka chapter 18 pg 36 wt copyright.

The JW do not identify as having a clergy and laity class, all brothers. That is how JW self define. How the law applies is not determined in a forum of public opinion.

Relating to how the law applies to clergy there are legal provisions that specifically apply to clergy such as parking benefits, tax benefits and exemptions and other benefits and laws that govern the clergy depending on jurisdiction but jw doo not subscribe or benefit or are governed by laws that apply to the clergy because they self define as not having a clergy class. But as I explained in my previous post, legislation uses the term clergy broadly to apply to ministers, Rabbis, etc as. With JW all active ministers with no laity. JW elders and shepherd managers don’t benefit from clergy laws or are governed by them because JW do not identify as having a clergy but that is the decided by the Courts when clergy laws are determined to apply to JW. Clergy ir no clergy, JW is a religion with rights protected by the Constitution. Unconstitutional to exclude a religion because they are required to have a clergy.

Take for example the RCC with a laity class of parishioners. Nobody is laity in JW.

46

Does the WTS have a clergy class (yes-no)

by blondie in

jw
friends

wt 2021 october p.20 "in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

although we respect those who are taking the lead, we accept jesus’ clear teaching: “all of you are brothers.”".

ijbq article 92 point 6: in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

Fisherman

they have a clergy. Elders, Deacons, Bishops, etc. Except they call them Elders, Ministerial Servants, and Circuit Overseers.

That is not a “clergy” class.

46

Does the WTS have a clergy class (yes-no)

by blondie in

jw
friends

wt 2021 october p.20 "in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

although we respect those who are taking the lead, we accept jesus’ clear teaching: “all of you are brothers.”".

ijbq article 92 point 6: in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

Fisherman

The WT corp doesn't like certain words...like clergy, grace, gospel etc. Those are "Christendom's" words.

So what?

46

Does the WTS have a clergy class (yes-no)

by blondie in

jw
friends

wt 2021 october p.20 "in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

although we respect those who are taking the lead, we accept jesus’ clear teaching: “all of you are brothers.”".

ijbq article 92 point 6: in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

Fisherman

anybody tries to claim clergy/penitent privilege in a court of law, they are admitting and expecting to be treated like clergy.

There is a difference between minister and clergy members—JW point out. JW have openly declared in court that they are not clergy. The onus is on the Courts to interpret the law in such a way as to determine if and when laws that apply to the clergy also apply to JW elders using a legal standard. It is unconstitutional to exclude JW religion from legal protections that other religions get because they have a clergy and JW do not. So the argument is that the term clergy is broadly used legally to include religions that have ministers that are not clergy members and it sometimes includes JW elder. However, since JW in fact do not have a clergy and that is their position, not all laws and benefits that apply to the clergy also apply to JW elders, so if an when the term clergy legally applies to the JW is a subject of LEGAL dispute when laws are not clear.

46

Does the WTS have a clergy class (yes-no)

by blondie in

jw
friends

wt 2021 october p.20 "in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

although we respect those who are taking the lead, we accept jesus’ clear teaching: “all of you are brothers.”".

ijbq article 92 point 6: in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

Fisherman

At NO time did I ever see myself as an employee of theirs when I was in the Jehovah’s Witness religion. I saw myself as a guest/sometime volunteer.

My point was the distinction between a manager and employee compared to elder sheep and not that JW are employees like managers and employees in some employment setting.

Also, I think that the point Blondie is showing is that there actually is a class distinction between elder and sheep which I didn’t dispute. But elders are not like the clergy of christendom and that’s the difference.

Pioneers don’t get paid and those volunteers don’t do it for money but for God they believe

46

Does the WTS have a clergy class (yes-no)

by blondie in

jw
friends

wt 2021 october p.20 "in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

although we respect those who are taking the lead, we accept jesus’ clear teaching: “all of you are brothers.”".

ijbq article 92 point 6: in contrast, true worshippers of jehovah have no clergy.

Fisherman

The JW don’t have a clergy class like christendom but in reality there is a class distinction between the elder class and everybody else. Elders lead and manage and shepherd the congregation members compared to everyone else. Like in an employment setting there is management and employees although everybody works for the company and are employees except JW don't get paid. And that is a fact.

20

Curtailing zoom

by road to nowhere in

co visit, so right from the horse's mouth ( or somewhere).

too many are staying on zoom, missing face to face encouragement.

look for the elders to implement changes.. also people at the door are so receptive and glad to see us.

Fisherman

Blondie

The people had to ask the elders, and then the elders had to check into whether those people had a "valid" reason

Well, nowadays if they don’t qualify for zoom it means they won’t be going to meetings at all. Like I said, some people want to attend the meetings but they can’t or don’t want to go in person and that is that. If they could or wanted to they would— so they won’t be going at all if they shut down zoom. and they can’t get it on youtube. I don’t feel the shepherding wants this to happen. Sure ideally they want everybody to go in person but if that is not possible they must allow zoom access or those people ain’t going.

20

Curtailing zoom

by road to nowhere in

co visit, so right from the horse's mouth ( or somewhere).

too many are staying on zoom, missing face to face encouragement.

look for the elders to implement changes.. also people at the door are so receptive and glad to see us.

Fisherman

they are doing away with Zoom

I really doubt it but who knows. It would stop those zoomers from the meetings all together because that won’t force them to go in person. At least with zoom people that can’t or don’t want to go in person can get the information via zoom. But if you shut down zoom and force people to have to go in person to the kh, sadly you will lose a lot of people