Fisherman

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Posts by Fisherman

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  46

  Should doctors tell JW patients that there is disagreement about Watchtower's blood policy.

  by Lee Elder in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  this has been a controversial issue among doctors and medical ethicists.

  i think it basically comes down to the fact that physicians have a responsibility to establish the presence of informed consent.

  is it really possible for a person to give informed consent if they are not accurately informed?.

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  Fisherman

  If someone with advanced knowledge that a blood transfusion would save them and refuses then suicide might be appropriate for cause of death..

  Years ago, before HIV was identified, a lot of doctors thought that they knew that a blood transfusion would save a patient wound up killing them. Also, a lot of people wound up getting infections in their liver from infected blood resulting that they die a slow torturous death. A lot of these people did not actually need blood and those people would have been saved if they would not have gotten blood transfusions. From a medical position BT had risks and still do, but if death is imminent without one then a patient has no choice if he wants to live, or at least have a fighting chance.

  From a JW position, the position is religious. Medical risks are reasons JW give to support their religious position and to show and persuade non JW that their religious position is not fanatical, but also to convince JW too of the reasonableness of the stand, never-the less, even if it was possible to administer 100 percent safe blood without any risks whatsoever to a JW, a JW could not accept.

  If a JW knows for a fact that God does not want him to take blood as the WT teaches then the JW is obeying God when he refuses a blood transfusion or refuses anti-venom or certain vaccines,...etc. But if it came down to it and his refusal of blood carried a risk of probable death and he did not know for a fact that God did not want him to take blood as the WT teaches and he refuses because of what he believes the Bible is saying from how the WT interprets the Bible, then his refusal is in obedience of the WT if he is refusing for religious reasons.

  In survival situations a person may have to eat rat or roaches or snakes or human flesh, etc. Some people would choose to die. In some situations when a person is threatened unless they submit to the demands of their captors, some people would also choose to die.

  JW are conditioned mentally to disgust blood but to the average joe that never gave it a thought, do not feel any repulsion to have quarts or gallons of some dude's bloody blood and dna and fluids, etc transfused into their body.
  
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  32

  legal action to Baptism of minor annulled?

  by cyberjesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  let's imagine that a 10 year old gets baptized.

  parents split and kid never goes back to the hall again.

  15 years later kid celebrates christmas and gets df since some dub saw him celebrating.

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  Fisherman

  Sometimes yes.
  

  I want to qualify my post. I am not saying that I agree that a child or minor SHOULD qualify for JW baptism in-spite of their age. All that I am saying is that according to JW, sometimes JW determine that minors do qualify, very much the same as some minors can qualify to go to prison or get expelled from school, or face consequences for their conduct similar to adults.
  
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  32

  legal action to Baptism of minor annulled?

  by cyberjesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  let's imagine that a 10 year old gets baptized.

  parents split and kid never goes back to the hall again.

  15 years later kid celebrates christmas and gets df since some dub saw him celebrating.

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  Fisherman

  Minors are not allowed legally to have sex, vote, drink, join the military or drive, because it is well established that they do not have the maturity to make responsible decisions at that age.

  17 days before a minor's 18th birthday, he does not qualify.
  
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  46

  Should doctors tell JW patients that there is disagreement about Watchtower's blood policy.

  by Lee Elder in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  this has been a controversial issue among doctors and medical ethicists.

  i think it basically comes down to the fact that physicians have a responsibility to establish the presence of informed consent.

  is it really possible for a person to give informed consent if they are not accurately informed?.

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  Fisherman

  Should doctors tell....

  Why not?

  Doctor: "Hello, my name is doctor Itz Myduty Tokeepyoualive." " I was told you are JW and do not want blood medicine?"

  Patient: "Yes, I am JW and I do not want a blood transfusion."

  Doctor: "I am not God but I do know this, you are bleeding to death and you will die without one."

  Patient: "If you are not God, then how do you know I will die without one?"

  Doctor:" I know from experience that people have been known to die from old age, drowning, falling and landing on their heads, when they eat poison, and a lot of other causes too, like in your case, bleeding." ". By the way, are you of the anointed because if you are, when you die you are going directly to heaven, you know??

  Patient: "No, I am OS."

  Doctor: "How do you know?"

  Patient: "A recent WT article explains that those of the anointed have clear and convincing evidence from God- so they know."

  Doctor: "Do you have clear and convincing evidence from God that HE does not want YOU to get a blood transfusion?"

  Patient: unconscious....expires.
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  32

  legal action to Baptism of minor annulled?

  by cyberjesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  let's imagine that a 10 year old gets baptized.

  parents split and kid never goes back to the hall again.

  15 years later kid celebrates christmas and gets df since some dub saw him celebrating.

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  Fisherman

  Ahh, but they do qualify to be baptized,

  Sometimes yes.
  
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  32

  legal action to Baptism of minor annulled?

  by cyberjesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  let's imagine that a 10 year old gets baptized.

  parents split and kid never goes back to the hall again.

  15 years later kid celebrates christmas and gets df since some dub saw him celebrating.

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  Fisherman

  BB
  

  A child does not qualify to give consent to sex.
  
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  32

  legal action to Baptism of minor annulled?

  by cyberjesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  let's imagine that a 10 year old gets baptized.

  parents split and kid never goes back to the hall again.

  15 years later kid celebrates christmas and gets df since some dub saw him celebrating.

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  Fisherman

  A person, minor or adult, does not just dive into the pool; He must qualify for baptism. Later on, after being a JW for a while, the WT will not accept a person's change of heart because the person claims and now believes that he jumped into it or was a minor at the time. Children can get expelled from school for not obeying the rules and minors can go to jail too. If a person decides that he no longer wants to be a JW, he can leave, but in the JW community that it is a sad and disgraceful thing. If anyone young or old thinks that he can un-JW himself without any consequences, he has to be kidding. AKA un-ring the bell or annul a marriage after 6 pregnancies,or be a virgin again after intercourse.
  
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  21

  New Field Service Format?

  by jw07 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it seems that hype is the only thing keeping jw.org alive and well these days (that and the money of suckers who continue to fall for it).. at meeting on monday, an elder announced "the faithful slave has seen it fit to change the format of our ministry in 2016, and more information will come".

  i guess the desired reaction is to get jws preoccupied with what those changes could possibly be, and if it means that the end is nearer or some crap.. with that said, i've been suckered into wanting to know what these 'changes' will be.

  does anyone know?

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  Fisherman

  Maybe they're pulling the plug on door-to-door work in the developed world,

  JW blood was shed for this right. Do you think WT will just do away with DD? Not in a trillion years. Regarding child abuse accusation against the WT, WT is somewhat concerned about the negative publicity but it is not a major concern because they are confident that the way they handle child abuse cases is proper and complies with Caesar. However, new precautions have been adapted to protect against lawsuit vulnerabilities.
  
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  21

  New Field Service Format?

  by jw07 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it seems that hype is the only thing keeping jw.org alive and well these days (that and the money of suckers who continue to fall for it).. at meeting on monday, an elder announced "the faithful slave has seen it fit to change the format of our ministry in 2016, and more information will come".

  i guess the desired reaction is to get jws preoccupied with what those changes could possibly be, and if it means that the end is nearer or some crap.. with that said, i've been suckered into wanting to know what these 'changes' will be.

  does anyone know?

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  Fisherman

  I have never heard of a KH meeting on Monday since the WT WT study is Monday night and Betllies cannot make it. But if there are any changes it has nothing to do with stopping the preaching work. According to the org book, the purpose of the cong is the preaching work.

  It is my opinion though that the preaching work will not continue for more than a couple of more years at the very most. I also think that 100 years of preaching just about covers it because it is senseless for people not to experience some consequences in their lifetime for rejecting it. Seems to me that everything should converge after the WT is out of Kings County and established in Warwicked if that long. Just my view. Something must happen.
  
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  54

  The Watchtower is not invincible

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  despite claims to the contrary, there's no guarantee the watchtower will be around in a few decades time.

  and it seems to me there's ever mounting evidence that the opposite may well be true.

  but it's not just that recruitment is down and their defectors are up.

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  Fisherman

  I think that the WT is invincible.