What I find incredible is how people only object to the setting. I suppose it would be ok for some people if a person confessed child abuse to a Catholic priest or a pastor or somebody else other than a jw elder. That is ok as long as that person remains secret about it. Say a couple of hail maries and hush is the word and that is ok vs the same man confessing the sin under a JC setting, that is not ok. Makes a lot of sense.
Fisherman
JoinedPosts by Fisherman
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Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial
by darkspilver inday 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.
jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.
february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.
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Fisherman
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90
Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial
by darkspilver inday 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.
jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.
february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.
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Fisherman
Gotta love Watchtower Speak and how they have bent word usage to their standards
Says you.
Read US Legislation and not public opinion.
Isn't that sort of the same as saying...ummm...apples (aka oranges/pear
Not according to US law. But you are entitled to your view. This is not the proper forum to verify whether or not JW religion enjoys clergy/ penitent privilege. But according to US legislation they do! And opinions do not matter. Same as Roe vs Wade and same sex marriages. It is the law of the land..... at least for now.. laws can change you know -but not because someone thinks it is not the law.
And if you can show US law stating that Jehovah's Witnesses do not enjoy clergy/penitent privilege, produce it.
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Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial
by darkspilver inday 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.
jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.
february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.
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Fisherman
If JW religion confidentiality privilege finds it way up to the SCOUS. JW will win, but what will remain undecided and points of contention are the 2 points I have described.
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Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial
by darkspilver inday 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.
jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.
february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.
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Fisherman
We know that down the line a confession will be shared with others, this reference seems to indicate that in order to keep the privilege they must remain secret.
And what is the legal meaning of that? The State Court determines on a case by case basis whether or not any challenged church communication meets the legal standard for confidentiality under the related STATE LAW. The California case that you cite was adjudicated under the laws of California and not under Federal Law.
STATE LAW vs The US Supreme Court however has not decided on Elder/ JW communication confidentiality as not being secret -or more importantly, not protected under the constitution or federal law because of the manner JW handles judicial cases (aka clergy/ penitent) does not comply with a LEGAL standard.
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Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial
by darkspilver inday 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.
jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.
february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.
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Fisherman
Hecce,the only points of contention that the Court looks at and rules on, on a case by case basis is:
1) The setting: Does the communication setting qualify in this particular case for C/P privilege
2) In what capacity was the clergyman acting at the time of the communication.
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90
Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial
by darkspilver inday 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.
jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.
february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.
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Fisherman
Two cases in California destroyed the so called clergy privilege of the WT.
No, it does not. As described in your post referenced above, the Court's adverse ruling affecting C/P privilege in the related setting for this particular case does not destroy WT (JW religion) C/P privilege. The ruling only affects the communication setting for this particular case only. The confidentiality of.JW Elders and Penitents going to them for a spiritual purpose continue to be protected under Federal Law..
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The fact that different states have different laws about child sexual abuse is ludicrous it should be looked at pronto.
by smiddy init would go a long way in having a law that prosecutes anybody sexually abusing a child or even an adult that encompasses all states with the same laws the same consequences and the same penalties in the country.. this system that has different laws ,different penaltys , different outcomes depending in what state you live in is ludicrous.. one country should have the same judicial system no matter how many states their are in that country.. this state has mandatory laws this state doesnt and the outcome can be so demoralising for those involved ..
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Fisherman
f that 'Clergy privilege BS' is sacred to a state then other safeguards need to be in place. What do they say about.
It is not sacred to a state and that is why a +States have formed laws that conflict with US law, namely mandatory reporting laws by the clergy which go against the Constitution. It is US legislation that protects the confidentiality of penitents. Child abuse reporting by the clergy when mandated by State law under a clergy/ penitent setting violates the confidentiality of the penitent. The legal proceedings that have been initiated against JW by child abuse victims challenge the setting of communication between C/P. It cannot challenge or invalidate the clergy status of the JW elder class which has been established by Federal law and cannot be un-established by local courts.
The WT has already made it crystal clear in Court that they are prohibited by Federal law to reveal confidential communications of penitents even if local laws mandate it. Also, wt does not have legal authority to adjudicate what communications settings comply. Also wt views all church communications with penitents as confidential.
How many times does wt haters wish that wt ask the gov to make it easy for them by CHANGING US LAW. They haven't becsuse it protects Babylonia -- a bedfellow.
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The fact that different states have different laws about child sexual abuse is ludicrous it should be looked at pronto.
by smiddy init would go a long way in having a law that prosecutes anybody sexually abusing a child or even an adult that encompasses all states with the same laws the same consequences and the same penalties in the country.. this system that has different laws ,different penaltys , different outcomes depending in what state you live in is ludicrous.. one country should have the same judicial system no matter how many states their are in that country.. this state has mandatory laws this state doesnt and the outcome can be so demoralising for those involved ..
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Fisherman
The courts were the ones that changed things.
US Supreme Court = Uncle Sam vs State law.
It is not relevant how federal laws are legislated in our point of discussion, but that they can be formed and that they can be formed to go against State law and that they can be enforced by US troops And as difficult as it may seem, it has been done and can be done in the future regardless of any difficulty.
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The fact that different states have different laws about child sexual abuse is ludicrous it should be looked at pronto.
by smiddy init would go a long way in having a law that prosecutes anybody sexually abusing a child or even an adult that encompasses all states with the same laws the same consequences and the same penalties in the country.. this system that has different laws ,different penaltys , different outcomes depending in what state you live in is ludicrous.. one country should have the same judicial system no matter how many states their are in that country.. this state has mandatory laws this state doesnt and the outcome can be so demoralising for those involved ..
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Fisherman
Also there are laws in each state that would make it difficult to even make a federal law.
That is why Kennedy brought out the National Guard to enforce US laws that protected the blacks. Also, look at laws now that protect the gays. As difficult as it may seem, Federal laws can be passed that go against local laws.
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Circuit Assemblies in the "Good Old Days"
by BluesBrother injust been reminiscing about how c/a's have changed since we were young.
i remember when they started friday night in some rented hall , as well as the two weekend days.
saturday morning was a brief session then field ministry (which only a few performed ) and sunday sessions.. in the free time around the venue we just used to hang out socialising and eyeing up the girls.
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Fisherman
The entire JW exprience has changed. In the past, JW message was mainly about the "end;" now it is mainly about Christian living -with the end in the back burner