Posts by Fisherman

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Fisherman

TD, your approach in interpreting the act of abstaining from blood in Acts is like Bi1l Clinton. I am trying to look at your view objectively and not as an advocate but your argument that abstaining from blood does not include ingesting a gallon of it because it is taking a different route inside the body instead of digestion is not kosher.

God commanded Adam not to eat from the forbidden fruit and knowing this could he ingest the fruit some other way or consume it for a different purpose other than eating without violating God’s command?

One explanation that wt gives is that the early christians did not consume blood for a medical purpose . WT also uses the illustration that if a doctor tells a patient to abstain from a substance such as alcohol or drugs or blood, should the patient ingest it some other way?

I am not persuaded to believe that if a person consumes a volume of blood via a bt he is abstaining from eating blood because he is ingesting it into his body and consuming it which is what eating basically is although bt is not digested. Keep in mind that the verse actually says abstain without the act ( why, literary device?) from blood. The interpretation is inferred by context and implication. ( What is the decree implying by not specifically saying eating blood? If God told me to abstain from a crankshaft, I wouldn’t even look at one, I’d conclude God was implying to stay away.)

I sincerely hold you and your commentary in high esteem.

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Fisherman

TD,

At the pure language assembly, it was explained that “Good health to you” was only a greeting, an ending to the letter and not a health promise. I think it is ironic though in my observation , nothing more.

Nothing can me more simple and more removed from sophistry than if someone consumes 3 quarts of blood, pumping a load of blood into one’s organism he is not abstaining from blood. That is not equivocation. That is axiomatic. Sophistry is explaining how one manages to shove a camel through one’s veins without swallowing it, that is to say abstaining.

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Fisherman

Cofty,

I too add this to my previous post to you.

I wanted to point out that the Israelites were commanded not to eat anything dead juxtaposition with your belief that they had permission to eat dead animals with impunity. Also, the verse you reference about a ceremonial wash only deals with if a person eats some of it, the animal found dead. No more is said. It doesn’t give permission with impunity to cut up the whole carcass and eat it or sell it to other Jews which would also be another derivative from your premise.I understand that there is a different standard for eating a nonbled animal that was slaughtered for food —which is your point. Nevertheless, the Israelites were commanded not to eat dead animals. If they ate some of it (and nothing is explained why they ate only if they ate) They couldn’t eat it, let alone touch it without becoming unclean. That was the standard of holiness. It wasn’t permission to eat. The law proscribed eating dead animals.

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Fisherman

They had permission to go ahead and eat with impunity

You conclude that permission is implied to go around eating dead unbled animals. We don’t see that practiced by the Israelites in the Bible. Also, there is no Bible evidence ( except for your assumption ) that whole blood inside or outside a living organism is not viewed as sacred to God. Or that Christians have permission from God with impunity to consume the blood of another living organism just because the host is alive.

Everything considered,you make an excellent point cofty. I thank you for your articles on this subject. Again, I sincerely enjoyed the information.

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Fisherman

Which is not, strictly speaking, grammatically correct) is likely the reason you're having trouble with this.

Thank you TD for magnificently pointing this out. People in general have not realized this nuance.

With all my respect to you, We at JW understand more than you figure:

Abstain from doing what? When a doctor tells you to abstain from alcohol, he means consuming ethanol. In a funny way though, he is telling you to stay away from alcohol; it’s that serious. Is pumping a gallon of ethyl alcohol into your veins “keep abstaining?” I think it is ironic that God chose a physician to write this decree and at the end of his letter although it is only a greeting -but him being a doctor and all-he writes: “Good Health to You” as if keep abstaining from alcohol for medical reasons is implied in the greeting. Strictly not going beyond what is written though, new gentile Christian were to -as you point out-abstain from blood as the Jews had been abstaining from blood. It is noteworthy that although It wasn’t realized or understood at the time, some of God’s laws to Israel were for medical reasons including dietary laws so how can you factor out medical purpose from dietary in “keep abstaining? “ It is also interesting that WT latest commentary points out that the laws on blood in the Mosaic covenant did not apply to non-Jews although the Noachide laws are still binding upon all of humanity, seeing that wt cites Leviticus in support of JW stance. Also, at the time of this epistle, the Mosaic law was abolished and Jews were not legally required to observe the laws on blood as stipulated in the law covenant. So what could this decree actually have meant by keep abstaining since the law covenant was abolished, was is more than Noachide to both Jews and Christians? Were now all Christians to participate in that part of the covenant dealing with blood meaning that the decree now binds it upon both Jews and Christians? WT commentary references Leviticus explaining that although the law covenant applied only to Israel (and keep in mind that when the epistle was written the Mosaic law did not apply) God’s view in the law pertaining to blood was serious, involving the death penalty. So in keep abstaining relating to this scripture, God also views it as very serious when you violate his law on blood in modern times. Cofty’s commentary mitigates this by equating that consuming blood drawn from a living host is the same to God as the blood from an animal that died naturally because in both cases no life was taken. However, “keep”ing with how Jews abstained from blood in the past and the noachide, there is no scriptural basis in not abstaining from blood in new ways of consuming blood.

By the way, cofty’s argument is very interesting and his article is worth reading in my humble estimate.

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Fisherman

Acts 15:19,20 (KJV) Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

This applied to non-Jews (according to the verse) who may not have abstained from blood before this decree. How did early Christians apply this? According to WT commentary, early christians didn’t consume blood or use it for medical purpose.

( I don’t see how a christian bleeding profusely and facing immediate death short of a miracle can get around this. )

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Fisherman

Hi TD,

“keep abstaining....from blood"

—“And from sexual immorality….” Jesus added to the meaning of adultery “on every sort of ground” so your rule doesn’t strictly apply. However, how are blood transfusions outside the scope?

( I correctly referred to the decree as “keep abstaining” in my post above.)

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Fisherman

Hi cofty,

Thanks for your interesting posts and threads on this subject.

I think I’ve explained the scriptures you reference on a previous thread. Your false derivative is based on wrong interpretation, namely what you personally conclude from the distinction between the 2 sorts of blood as explained in wt commentary.

According to your derivative, it was lawful for an Israelite to practice eating dead un-bled “kosher” animals and it was also lawful for those ancient Israelites to consume the blood of living animals just as long as they didn’t kill them, for example, in some places in Africa the natives extract blood from their living livestock and consume the blood. According to your interpretation, that does not violate the prohibition to keep abstaining from blood same as a bt which involves consuming large amounts of blood from living hosts. Inspite of your interpretation, I don’t see this lawfully practiced in the Bible as the Israelites surely abstained from this.

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Fisherman

The voluntary donation of blood of an unharmed person for the medical benefit of another is not prohibited in any text.

That depends on how one interprets the text. As JW interpret the Bible ( at this time) and it be makes sense, Abstaining from blood includes not flooding your body with gallons of whole blood. The benefits or health concerns is another subject.

blood saves lives

Not arguing that sometimes only a blood transfusion can either prolong life or even stop a person from dying —short of a miracle.

(At one time organ transplants were viewed as cannibalism by JW. Now, some JW have gotten organ transplants.)

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Fisherman

eating an animal found already dead.

How does a person that pumps 1/2 gallon of blood into his veins keep abstaining from blood as required in the Christian Scriptures?

Also, if an Israelite went around eating dead animals, he would obviously get into trouble. The related scripture is not a concession allowing Israelites to go around eating dead unbled animals as a standard for the Israelites. The standard was the ritualistic slaughter with the poring out of the blood. There is no such practice recorded in the Bible. However, you make the point that even if one person ate a dead animal, the blood was different from blood from a slaughtered animal and WT acknowledges that in wt literature. The issue in modern time remains because blood transfusions is a standard practice in medicine, Christians are to “keep abstaining” from blood. The JW gb interprets that to mean no bt.

I don’t think that a Jew in ancient Israel worth his weight in modern day salt would eat a dead (kosher) animal because it was wrong to do so but IF he did, there was no penalty although there was uncleaness integrated with the conduct.