Posts by Golf

If your just journeying into the world of secret societies, expect the unexpected. As I said, there's plenty of material for you to examine. We all have choices.

Guest 77

26

Watchtower and Illuminati

by izobcenec in

jw
friends

has anyone researched the claims of watchtower & illuminati connection?.

http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/templar.htm.

http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles/russell.html.

IZO, I'm not here to ridicule you, if anything, I find it to be an interesting subject. What I'm getting across is examining the subject. There's plenty of material on this subject in the world but how much of it is propaganda? Whether one believes it not doesn't rock my boat. You will always have believers and non-believers, always. It's no different than the topic, 'Does God Exist?'

So, I'm not raining on your party.

Guest 77

26

Watchtower and Illuminati

by izobcenec in

jw
friends

has anyone researched the claims of watchtower & illuminati connection?.

http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/templar.htm.

http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles/russell.html.

Golf

Chasson, yeah it was good to refresh my memory. There's nothing like getting reliable information. One has to do a lot of back ground information on subjects since plenty of information are based on opinions, and personal ones at that.

I don't find the material objectionable to share, it's the truth. It will clear away some of the fog that exjw's have on the subject.

I've read a lot of David Icke's material but I've never quote him. I like to stay on the lines of people who have reputable names and credentials.

Sharing that information will be helpful to the French friends. Illuminati is nothing more than some thinking they are more gifted in knowing/knowledge than others. The illuminati are like David Copperfield, the object is to distract you while he pulls off his act.

Guest 77

26

Watchtower and Illuminati

by izobcenec in

jw
friends

has anyone researched the claims of watchtower & illuminati connection?.

http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/templar.htm.

http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles/russell.html.

Golf

Badboy, if your into reading, IF. Go to a large book store and read the book, "Paranoia," make sure you get the copy written by Criag DiLouie. I'm not saying the story is true or false but you will find interesting material on pages 121, 122 and onward. I'm not going to tell you, find out yourself. Get back to me after reading the book.

Izo, here's an interesting book to read, "The Curse of Canaan" by Eustace Mullins. Mr. Mullins got most of his information by a poet by the name of Ezra Pound. Mr. Pound was a political prisoner for over 13 years.

The book can be purchased at CPA Book Publisher P.O. Box 596 Boring Oregon 97009 503-668-4941

Guest 77

26

Watchtower and Illuminati

by izobcenec in

jw
friends

has anyone researched the claims of watchtower & illuminati connection?.

http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/templar.htm.

http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles/russell.html.

Golf

Chasson, I'm glad you ask for the letter. I was searching for it and in the process I found other material that I drastically needed, serendipity. I asked a personal question about freemasonry and the following is his reply.

The letter is dated August 24, 1999. So, it was more than a few years ago.

"As for the influence of freemasonry on the watch Tower organization, this is based almost entirely on rumor, speculation and creative imagination. In the late 1800s and early 1900s, a number of symbolisms, pyramidal, sun disk, etc., were fairly popular as decorative items used by various sources. The U.S. one-dollar bill contains a pyramid with an eye at the top. Such type of illustrations are not unique with the masonic lodge. A book of the same type as the one you mention makes an issue of the use of the cross and crown found on the Watch Tower magazines, showing that Masons have a similiar illustration in their publications.

Essentially, the practice of such books is to employ a host of subtle parallels to try to prove a relationship which did not in fact exist. My parents were affiliated with the watch Tower organization from about 1913 onward and Charles Taze Russell was still alive in 1913 and the president at that time. When I was a child there were few Kingdom Halls, aside from some rented store front buildings or second floor rented rooms. Witness meetings were often held in Masonic temples simply because they were available and did not cost much to rent for a few hours a week. But if an Oddfellow's hall, or some some other lodge hall, was more convenient, that is what was used. My uncle, Fred, went to the headquarters about 1920 and had close association with J.F. Rutherford, the second president. he never expressed even the slightest interest in, or approval of, freemasonry. There was no evidence whatsoever of any influence from freemasonry witnessed by any of us, nor has there been since, including the fifteen I spent at the Brooklyn headquarters, nine of these spent on the governing body. If the claimed influence were so manifest and strong, why is it that no one during all those years was aware of it? Freemasonry simply became viewed as another source of false religion. During the years after disfellowshiping policies came more strongly into effect, anyone belonging to Freemasonry would have to withdraw before becoming eligible for baptism and anyone baptized who joined Freemasonry would have been disfellowshiped.

Similarity does not demonstrate mutuality of origin. The use of the watch tower, for example, is in accord with Biblical language and the fact that Masons use it does not demonstrate that the Watch Tower drew from them as a source or used the symbol to show some solidarity with them. The cross and crown was a fairly common symbol among Protestants, expressing both Christ's death and his kingship, but the use of these in Russell's time does not prove he was affiliated with a Protestant denomination. Nothing that either Russell or Rutherford wrote or said in any way indicates that they favored the Masonic system, quite the contrary. As stated, when disfellowshiping procedures developed, it would have been a disfellowshiping offense for a witness to be a member of a masonic lodge.

The problem with books such as those you mention is that they make many assertions, provide virtually no soild documentation, and the reader is left without the means of verifying the claims made. If the material is written very authoritatively and with good amount of plausibility, many accept as fact what often is mere fiction. And much of what they write fits the description of what we describe in English as "beating a dead horse," they are dealing with things that have no significance or relevance today. During the nine years I spent on the Governing Body the names of Russell and Rutherford were mentioned no more than a couple of times at most - and those 9 years included more than four hundred meetings of the body. The matter of freemasonry did not surface in a single one of those meetings." The rest of the letter does not pertain to freemasonry.

I'm glad you requested the letter, I haven't read since receiving it. I hope many on this forum will take the time to read it. It should lay to rest many questions about JW's and freemasonry. The other portions of the letter are of great interest but where dealing with freemasonry right now.

Guest 77

26

TV Movie "Judas" better than "Passion" at Theaters

by Sentinel in

Golf

26

Watchtower and Illuminati

by izobcenec in

jw
friends

has anyone researched the claims of watchtower & illuminati connection?.

http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/templar.htm.

http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles/russell.html.

Golf

Chasson, I'll locate the letter and quote the portion dealing with the Masons. This subject came up before and if memory serves me right, I may have quoted him at the time. I can't be sure. Now to find the letter in my room of horrors.

Guest 77

26

Watchtower and Illuminati

by izobcenec in

jw
friends

has anyone researched the claims of watchtower & illuminati connection?.

http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/templar.htm.

http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles/russell.html.

Golf

I allowed your post to drift along to see if there would be any takers. A few years back, I had written a letter to Ray Franz and questioned him about Freemasony within the org. In all the years of association with the org. including his family, there was never any mention of the Masons or association with the Masons.

One needs to keep in mind that were living in 2004 and not in the seventeen or eighteen hundreds. We cannot equate today's time line and events with other era's. Why, many young folks today cannot even imagine what life was like back in the forties and early fifties and we wanna go back to 1870's? They say, the more things change the more they remain the same. Yes, maybe some things but not all things.

Assuming that Russell was a Mason, what relevance would it have today? If it does, please explain. Please don't tell me to view the sites, I already have. Let's stick to the question. I want YOUR views.

I did find it interesting that his monument is shaped like a pyramid. Would this indicate he was a Mason?

Guest 77

117

To the people of Spain

by Amazing1914 in

.

this terrible event in your land saddens us all ... i am sorry that those responsible are likely doing this to get revenge upon your nation for its support of the united kingdom, the usa and other coalition of nations devoted to the war on terror ... you and your loved ones killed so tragically are in our thoughts and prayers ... your natioin is honored among us all ... and may you heal from this as quickly as possible.

Golf

SLH, right on about indigenous people. They screwed them when they first landed and they're still screwing them. I'm referring to the 'greedy' ones.

How many of the over three hunded treaties did the Europeans keep with the indigenous peoples?

The Church never considered them 'humans' unless these poor ignorant savages were baptized!

It's always a different story when the shoe is on the other foot. As they say, when your pointing fingers, always look at the three pointing back at you.

Guest 77