Watchtower and Illuminati

izobcenec

Has anyone researched the claims of Watchtower & Illuminati connection?

http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/templar.htm
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles/russell.html
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/dirtywatchtowersecrets.htm

I allowed your post to drift along to see if there would be any takers. A few years back, I had written a letter to Ray Franz and questioned him about Freemasony within the org. In all the years of association with the org. including his family, there was never any mention of the Masons or association with the Masons.

One needs to keep in mind that were living in 2004 and not in the seventeen or eighteen hundreds. We cannot equate today's time line and events with other era's. Why, many young folks today cannot even imagine what life was like back in the forties and early fifties and we wanna go back to 1870's? They say, the more things change the more they remain the same. Yes, maybe some things but not all things.

Assuming that Russell was a Mason, what relevance would it have today? If it does, please explain. Please don't tell me to view the sites, I already have. Let's stick to the question. I want YOUR views.

I did find it interesting that his monument is shaped like a pyramid. Would this indicate he was a Mason?

Guest 77

chasson

Dear Golf,

I'm really interested in the letter of Ray Franz about the subject.

Could you scan it ? Naturally with the approuval of Ray.

Bye

Charles

Golf

Chasson, I'll locate the letter and quote the portion dealing with the Masons. This subject came up before and if memory serves me right, I may have quoted him at the time. I can't be sure. Now to find the letter in my room of horrors.

Guest 77

chasson

Thanks Golf,

If i could translate in french the quotes, it could be interesting for my website.

Bye

Charles

ozziepost

May I just caution that it would be wise to gain Ray's permission first, but you may already have this in mind.

Thanks.

BTW it's always good to read posts from you guys.

izobcenec

Please don't tell me to view the sites, I already have. Let's stick to the question. I want YOUR views.

Golf,

I have read some articles about WT & Freemasony before, but only recently found out some interesting views about Illuminati (section of Freemasony). I am still researching this theory. I posted this thread to see, what other posters (who maybe haven's seen those sites) think or know. It is an open forum after all.

Some interesting things:

Knights Templar Symbol for the York Rite of Freemasonry was on the front page of the Watcht Tower magazine for many years. The same symbol is alson engraved on the pyramid gravestone of Charles Russell:

http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/templar.htm

The Pyramid is another very popular Freemasony symbol. Russell was highly interested in pyramids, he calculated many things with them (for instance 1914), he also visited egypt. here is one of his charts:

http://www.bible.ca/pre-russell-1915-pyramids-jws.gif

Did Masons financed the Watchtower society? I found this document (just a section) with some info about that. I don' have the complete document, which ends with "we give them..." what?

I also found this article about Hitler and JW's...interesting and almost "crazy" read

http://poweredbychrist.homestead.com/Hitler_Brooklyn.html

So what do I think? I have no idea...I don't think there is some absolute answer to all this, but it opens some interesting dimensions...

Oh and by the way...why does god's name JHWH appears in pyramids (from the Trinity broschure):

alt

alt

Regards, Izzy

Golf

Chasson, I'm glad you ask for the letter. I was searching for it and in the process I found other material that I drastically needed, serendipity. I asked a personal question about freemasonry and the following is his reply.

The letter is dated August 24, 1999. So, it was more than a few years ago.

"As for the influence of freemasonry on the watch Tower organization, this is based almost entirely on rumor, speculation and creative imagination. In the late 1800s and early 1900s, a number of symbolisms, pyramidal, sun disk, etc., were fairly popular as decorative items used by various sources. The U.S. one-dollar bill contains a pyramid with an eye at the top. Such type of illustrations are not unique with the masonic lodge. A book of the same type as the one you mention makes an issue of the use of the cross and crown found on the Watch Tower magazines, showing that Masons have a similiar illustration in their publications.

Essentially, the practice of such books is to employ a host of subtle parallels to try to prove a relationship which did not in fact exist. My parents were affiliated with the watch Tower organization from about 1913 onward and Charles Taze Russell was still alive in 1913 and the president at that time. When I was a child there were few Kingdom Halls, aside from some rented store front buildings or second floor rented rooms. Witness meetings were often held in Masonic temples simply because they were available and did not cost much to rent for a few hours a week. But if an Oddfellow's hall, or some some other lodge hall, was more convenient, that is what was used. My uncle, Fred, went to the headquarters about 1920 and had close association with J.F. Rutherford, the second president. he never expressed even the slightest interest in, or approval of, freemasonry. There was no evidence whatsoever of any influence from freemasonry witnessed by any of us, nor has there been since, including the fifteen I spent at the Brooklyn headquarters, nine of these spent on the governing body. If the claimed influence were so manifest and strong, why is it that no one during all those years was aware of it? Freemasonry simply became viewed as another source of false religion. During the years after disfellowshiping policies came more strongly into effect, anyone belonging to Freemasonry would have to withdraw before becoming eligible for baptism and anyone baptized who joined Freemasonry would have been disfellowshiped.

Similarity does not demonstrate mutuality of origin. The use of the watch tower, for example, is in accord with Biblical language and the fact that Masons use it does not demonstrate that the Watch Tower drew from them as a source or used the symbol to show some solidarity with them. The cross and crown was a fairly common symbol among Protestants, expressing both Christ's death and his kingship, but the use of these in Russell's time does not prove he was affiliated with a Protestant denomination. Nothing that either Russell or Rutherford wrote or said in any way indicates that they favored the Masonic system, quite the contrary. As stated, when disfellowshiping procedures developed, it would have been a disfellowshiping offense for a witness to be a member of a masonic lodge.

The problem with books such as those you mention is that they make many assertions, provide virtually no soild documentation, and the reader is left without the means of verifying the claims made. If the material is written very authoritatively and with good amount of plausibility, many accept as fact what often is mere fiction. And much of what they write fits the description of what we describe in English as "beating a dead horse," they are dealing with things that have no significance or relevance today. During the nine years I spent on the Governing Body the names of Russell and Rutherford were mentioned no more than a couple of times at most - and those 9 years included more than four hundred meetings of the body. The matter of freemasonry did not surface in a single one of those meetings." The rest of the letter does not pertain to freemasonry.

I'm glad you requested the letter, I haven't read since receiving it. I hope many on this forum will take the time to read it. It should lay to rest many questions about JW's and freemasonry. The other portions of the letter are of great interest but where dealing with freemasonry right now.

Guest 77

gumby

One needs to keep in mind that were living in 2004 and not in the seventeen or eighteen hundreds../............. Assuming that Russell was a Mason, what relevance would it have today?

Well put guest77( I like you better with that name)

Fact is.....the dubs of today have no ties there, are haven't for 99% of their existence.

If bad "roots" is what was needed to prove the dubs didn't have heavenly backing at the start of their religion, ............why not just talk about 'Miracle Wheat' too?

There is plenty of modern day scandle on the dubs, that one doesn't need ancient smut to disprove their validity as a sane religious group.

Gumby

badboy

the ILLUMATI doo not exist,it's a myth.

Watchtower and Illuminati

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