Posts by Love

Yes, I have a strong feeling this thread may turn out to be the longest ever. I never give up. It's part of my character. Especially when we're talking opinions, which encompasses every conclusion known to humankind.

Abaddon,

I agree with LT on the Monty Python thought- I thought the same thing when I read that comment. The writing of Joseph of Arimithea on the wall in the cave, you know, it says Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhhhhhh..........

Six,

Nothing has convinced me God does not exist to date. Numerous conclusions from the same evidence. My statement stands.

Love_truth- What fun!

348

God does exist...

by czarofmischief in

jw
friends

earlier a thread emerged, as they do so often, on whether or not god existed.

i stated that he does, unequivocally and without doubt.

i refused to preface the statement with the phrase "i believe".

Love_Truth

Farkel,

How do you reconcile the fact that the alleged writer of Genesis, namely Moses, could list some Kings of Israel in that same book that were to reign some 350 fifty years AFTER he was buried? I've got many more anachronisms from the Bible. Just answer to people's satisfaction the problem with this one and then challenge me some more. I will make your head spin and show you just how NOT historically accurate the Bible has been.

Go for it. I?ll first remind you that (1) Archaeology is more art than science- it?s detective work, good or bad, that yields the conclusion of the team doing the analysis as to when events occurred, why, how, etc. Archaeological conclusions are always subject to re-interpretation. How many innocents have been jailed, executed, or otherwise punished due to ?bad? detective work, using recent evidence?

Dating methods are likewise inaccurate, and have been proven so. There are numerous examples of hoaxes that were radiocarbon dated to thousands of years, and then determined (after the hoax was revealed) that the dates were way, way off. So much for ?dating? accuracy. When a method of accurately, reliably, dating material is developed, the present day methods will then be ?demolished?, as you are fond of stating. Until then careers, books, and fortunes rely on the appearance of accuracy in findings. Professionals in the fields described above often cover each others backs collaboratively in coming to their conclusions.

If you choose to believe in uncertain conclusions, so be it. The Bible was, and is believed to be God?s inspired word for many centuries, nearly two thousand years. For your ilk to now try to prove otherwise, you?ll need irrefutable proof to convince me.

Go ahead, give it your best shot. This?ll be fun.

Love_Truth- loves it when people threaten ?demolishing? other?s beliefs with out irrefutable evidence to back them up.

Abaddon,

What I wrote above (to Farkel) and here:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/67962/1068440/post.ashx#1068440

fairly well sums up my response to your latest posts.

To elaborate further, you continually bring up how ?inaccurate? the Bible is, and yet you have posted no irrefutable conclusions to that end.

You bring up the flood (yet again) that we?ve already discussed in another thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/15/66823/1040881/post.ashx#1040881

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/15/66823/1041955/post.ashx#1041955

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/15/66823/1042250/post.ashx#1042250

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/15/66823/1042364/post.ashx#1042364

You likewise bring up evolution theory as ?proof?, which I?ve touched on as well:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/67808/1058804/post.ashx#1058804

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/67808/1058844/post.ashx#1058844

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/67808/1058897/post.ashx#1058897

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/67808/1058907/post.ashx#1058907

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/67808/1058956/post.ashx#1058956

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/67808/1059031/post.ashx#1059031

So, if you have other or new lines of reasoning you?d like to pursue, be my guest.

Let?s not rehash what?s already been covered on:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/67335/1047849/post.ashx#1047849

and:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/15/66823/1037533/post.ashx#1037533

OK?

Now, as for what you consider to be the ?weakest link in evolution theory? I can?t read your mind, but I can certainly read your post history here on JWD. Do you care to point me to the post in question? Or do I have to dig it up myself? Here are what I see as, off the top of my head, the weakest links in evolution theory:

-The spontaneous appearance of life (Creation explains this well, evolution, other theories, not so).

-The drastic jump from one species, genetic type, etc, to a radically different one. (Creation explains this well, evolution, other theories, not so).

- The physical laws. (Creation explains this well, evolution, other theories, not so).

That?s a ?good start?. I may post more, yet that?s enough for now to get the discussion rolling, I believe.

Incidentally, whether I am an archaeologist, a biologist, or an engineer, what is critical in all of the sciences is critical thinking, good analytical skills, a healthy amount of skepticism, a good research tool such as the internet, and it doesn?t hurt to have an IQ in the top 1%. I don?t need to be a "Degreed" subject matter expert, per se, to come to a valid, supportable, defendable conclusion, as long as I have the aforementioned attributes.

In addition to what I wrote above to Farkel about archaeology and dating, I?d add that I?ve found in my 19 years holding senior level positions in Engineering, Consulting, Marketing, and Sales, that University Degrees are good for credentials (to get one?s foot in the door), not good for much else. I can become a subject matter expert without a degree, such was the case with many of the most brilliant minds in recorded history, so appeal to authority alone is unconvincing to me.

So, no, I won?t be taking a test. If you believe something to be factual, irrefutable, whatever, post it and state so. If I?m not familiar with the subject matter, I?ll research it and reply after doing so.

PS- as for the definition of ? deamazon ?, you?ll have to tell me what that is.

SixofNine,

The first part?s easy- it?s possible to argue about the existence of God because there are numerous conclusions that can be drawn from the observable evidence.

Yes, but an all powerful benevolent and loving god is not one of them, unfortunately.

Seems I?ve already shown my assertion to indeed, be the case (numerous conclusions), and continue to do so. So much for your ?argument?.

Love_Truth- knows this is going to be a "never ending" thread.

P.S.- let's try and continue keeping this civil, eh? I'm not a fan of being callled names or playing the "my opinion is better than yours" games.

348

God does exist...

by czarofmischief in

jw
friends

earlier a thread emerged, as they do so often, on whether or not god existed.

i stated that he does, unequivocally and without doubt.

i refused to preface the statement with the phrase "i believe".

Love_Truth

Wasa,

A few things I'd comment on in your post:

- are you atheist or agnostic? You describe yourself by both labels in your post.

- I do believe God answers our prayers, however, I don't ask for anything other than strength, wisdom, understanding, fruits of the spirit, etc. To ask God to "take away" an affliction, or to "grant a wish", or to provide something material, is wrong, IMHO. I generally give thanks to God in my prayers, and yes, there is always something to give thanks for. It's all attitude (is the glass half empty or half full). And I'm speaking as someone who has endured much hardship throughout my life (I'm currently writing an autobiography after constant prodding throughout my life by friends and others I've told some of my stories to). I've also received many blessings, as well. Are those due to God answering my heart's desire? Or is it because I accept the human condition, imperfect, yet resilient, emotional, yet wise. I've been through most of what you wrote and more (my Mom's got cancer as of this writing).

I'm not knocking your perspective, simply giving another view. We're all as individual as fingerprints, and in the end, God will judge us each as individuals. I just don't personally blame God for bad things happening- it's part and parcel of life since Adam sinned, and paseed on that sin to humanity.

I wish you and yours the best.

LittleToe,

I'll consider your advice re: Abaddon. Thanks. (Although I don't mind debating the flood, or anything else, with anyone).

Abaddon,

I'll get to your issues during this week- It's a busy one for me. As for the test, I think that's rather condescending, dude. I have a good friend with a post graduate degree in Biology, and he believes as I do. I have a graduate degree (BSEE) as well, and decades of experience as an Engineer, much of which rests on understanding physical laws. I could make up a test for you just as well. I frankly find it somewhat childish. I will, however, as usual, answer your post. I'll close this brief response by reminding you that, in these matters (Bible's accuracy, Flood, Creation vs Evolution, etc), there is no irrefutable proof, only "best guesses" based on the evidence at hand. So, for evry "expert opinion" you can provide, I can do likewise. But, that having beemn said, I'm a sucker for debates of this nature, so look for my response(s) sometime this week.

Cheers to all,

Love_Truth

52

To those with "ears" to "hear"...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

once again, the spirit of my lord is upon me to call to the household of god, israel, and all those that 'go with' them...

may you all have peace!

very soon now, another time of "offering" will be upon you.

Love_Truth

Yes,

Those who put faith in YHWH, His Son, Jesus Christ, the Messiah and our mediator, and His Ransom Sacrifice in our behalf, we should partake of the symbols.

One should, however, before doing so carefully consider 1 Corinthians 11: 23-34:

"23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.
33 So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for each other. 34 If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment. And when I come I will give further directions."

I'll be partaking, along with many other XJWS, on the night of April 4, 2004 this year.

Love_Truth (unleavened bread, not pizza, of course)

11

JW's set to waste more paper @ Wallkill NY

by seedy3 in

jw
friends

check this out pictures of the expansion of the wallkill ny printing plant http://walkerimages.com/photo020.html.

one that i really wonder about and wonder how much they cropped is this one http://walkerimages.com/images02/1-1-04_view_from_new_factory_roof_.jpg.

is that a pyrimid there?????

Love_Truth

Blondie,

ROFL!! You hit the nail on the head!! Yes, they'd wind up in piles in basements an attics, before they went to the recycling center or the trash and found their way to the landfill!!

And here they are expandind the printing (wastefulness) facilities so they they waste even more forests in the same old tired excuse for "Christian works", instead of recognizing and using other forms of mass media (distributing CDs, or directing proselytes to their website).

What a waste of forests!

As the Bible says, that God will " bring to ruin those ruining the earth ."?Revelation 11:18.

11

JW's set to waste more paper @ Wallkill NY

by seedy3 in

jw
friends

check this out pictures of the expansion of the wallkill ny printing plant http://walkerimages.com/photo020.html.

one that i really wonder about and wonder how much they cropped is this one http://walkerimages.com/images02/1-1-04_view_from_new_factory_roof_.jpg.

is that a pyrimid there?????

Love_Truth

The title of your thread is yet another one of the numerous things that aggravated me as a JW:

The callous disregard for the sheer waste they produced. I'd wager 90% or more of the magazines they produce wind up in a recycling center or a landfill in a matter of weeks. So this practice of producing magazines, is, in essence, like chopping down forests only to fill landgfills or recycling centers, all paid for by loyal JWs. It sickens me as much now as it did then- I stopped contributing for the literature a decade befopre I left.

Oh, and I cut way back on how many magazines I got to "place" as well, and was constantly questioned why I wasn't "ordering more magazines". I would reply that I placed every magazine I got only with people who specifically asked for them, not forcing them on the househiolder like most dubs did.

Yep, that policy of wasting God's created forest was yet another reason I left the dubs.

Love_Truth- Theist and Environmentalist

348

God does exist...

by czarofmischief in

jw
friends

earlier a thread emerged, as they do so often, on whether or not god existed.

i stated that he does, unequivocally and without doubt.

i refused to preface the statement with the phrase "i believe".

Love_Truth

To rem and donkey,

No, belief in Creation is as supportable as belief in evolution, using the same evidence, but coming to different conclusions. Evidence that God exists does rest on the seen, as wel as the unseen.

Farkel, acsot, and dansk,

Yes, I too agree that asking someone to prove God doesn't exist is off the wall. You'll find that I've not done so.

pat and rem,

I agree with excluding the statement "atheists have faith" if we're talking solely about definition #2. However, in the common usage of the word "faith", atheists do indeed put faith in something(s) else, other than God or gods.

LittleToe,

Thanks for chiming in- this thread is about why we (theists) believe God exists, so being constrained by unbeliever's definitions is as off the wall as atheists being asked to prove he doesn't exist using believer's definitions.

Love_Truth- Carry on then.

Love_Truth

Posts by Love_Truth