Posts by boa

66

Visit From Elders

by laurelin in

it's been awhile since i've been on here.

due to death in the family, chicken pox in children and other nasty things.. i posted here awhile ago about things i had found the unsettled me.

i was due to have a visit from two elders and a lot of you gave me lots of help and encouragement.. well, the two elders visited and i have to admit that it was nothing like i expected.. they sat down, and told me straight away that there was nothing i could say or ask that would hurt me.

boa

laurelin, don't let all these damn apostates fool you, there just want you to leave God's One True Organization On Earth and follow after them, errr, sorry 'bout that, the feb 15/04 wt was taking over my brain.

Seriously though, I'm sure the bros who visited you were trying to help and be reasonable but I agree with some of the others here that there will be a very strict limit to how far they will let your thinking stray. Likely the warning flags are already well in place for them about you imo. I'm surprised any elder would dare say they don' t believe or agree with something from the wts since that alone by their own standard handed down from the org, is apostacy against the org - even thinking privately its not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. - italics and thought mine as I remember it from Crisis of Conscience.

(Not sure what your 'Whats the time brothers?" point was about, maybe someone can 'enlighten' me cuz its getting brighter all the time doncha know, when it isn't blinking.)

It sounds like your definitely at some crossroads despite your last post saying your at a decsion imo, and all I can add is that for the ramifications of you 'leaving' and/or going against what you used to believe was your salvation into a new system of things, one should be really sure for as solid reasons as possible.

For me, I reached many conclusions about problems with the org on my own, and then arrived here and promptly had those conclusions and more coalesce into breaking with the borg, though not officially as I have a job to do with those of my family still in. However, I was going to say, that for me Crisis of Conscience, Ray's other book In Search of Christian Freedom, and especially Carl Olaf Jonsson's book Gentile Times Reconsidered have been a 'Godsend'. For me, if 607 is hogwash (what gentile times book is all about), then quite simply they are liars and no matter how much 'good' they do for people, no matter how many 'nice' elders exist, it simply is not the 'true' religion whatever that is, and i don't want a part in it.

Of course, my message, is decide for yourself after careful consideration, meditation, research, discussion with husband, and even prayer if you still believe in Jehovah and seek his help to worship in spirit and truth.

boa

this post is very much just my own opinion, so trash it if you don't agree, no problem by me

18

Annual guilt trip - Memorial time!

by FreeWilly in

well i spoke with my mom this past week.

she made sure to remind me that the memorial was coming.

she pressed me for a promise to attend.

boa

As for the title, not for me and my family. Only made the decision in the last few days to not go (first time to my knowledge in 34 yrs), but not a shred of guilt. I'm about 1/2 way through Gentile Times Reconsidered and don't see an ounce of spirit direction to this org in the face of such deception. How could any amount of 'good' make up for such garbage like the 607 NON-DATE.

Hope all works out in the end for you and your Mom and family. My mom is about the only one I have hope for some day being released from wt bondage on my side of the family - siggghhh.

boa

27

Do You Believe Most JWs Follow Their Own Rules About Sex?

by minimus in

jw
friends

or do you think they try to follow the rules?

boa

I highly doubt it, and, minimus, you hit the nail on the 'head' LOL...

As young bros growing up, the wts stance on oral etc was of great interest - i.e. 'well see here, they haven't 'talked' about it for years now, thats a good sign thats it ok' heh heh whatever

i personally remember not so long ago feeling great guilt over certain sexual practices cuz of wts stance and all the pressure to conform - ahhhh freedom is oh so sweet and pleasureable sometimes.

what are the latest stats on how many masterbate? ~98% or something for men at some point in their lives, jeece, i guess ALL of the other 2% are born into the borg dubs right?

And as regards local needs talks, I can't imagine finding much support amongst the bros for talks against short skirts on sisters - i mean come on get real! They should have a talk if they're too long, and lets see those gams ladies! Uhhh, respectfully of course.

boa

'i just like the magazine for the articles' uh huh

22

something I've noticed...

by LuckyNun in

jw
friends

it's much more fun to anti-witness.

i used to hate going out in service, peddling a religion i didn't believe in.

but telling people about how the jw religion is full of shit?

boa

now if we could only get organized enough to hand in time every month and race the jws for hrs just like the greater number of hits on this website compared to theirs- LOL

From the posts above, i realized i'm no longer inactive starting last month! Wow, 18 month record of non-witnessing, only to start again with 'fellow believers' here. - LOL

LuckyNun - great thread - but can we get the 'publishers' record form changed any time soon to add 'Posts' and 'Threads started'???

boa

of the no longer 'inactive' class, and havin' a bitchin' time too!

32

Book Studies in Your Home

by Xena in

jw
friends

i'm curious (was reading the other thread about book studies and got to pondering) who had a book study group in your home and what was it like.

and did you go to any homes where they made you take your shoes and socks off and put on slippers or anything like that?.

we had one in our home....got counciled about having the demonic disney movies out, but for the most part it was a pretty good experience.

boa

I almost thought I couldn't post to this interesting thread when I remembered that up until I was around 8 or 9 yrs old, we had the bs in what was later to be my room, in the basement. The elder who was the conductor not long after, got married and promptly became inactive. And I used to try so hard to figure out such ones and 'what could be wrong with them'? hmmmmm?

Anyway, the bs was ok for most of my jw career. I've been in some strange ones though. One where a former elder (it was in his home as well) was always trying to take over the study from the conducter. (?) Ones with goody-nights - they were usually pretty good overall. But the best one I think was the one where the bro had a pool table and some other games AND goody-night quite regularly. We would arrive early to play pool, have the bs (and most of us probly thought about pool during it), then after during goodies, we would play pool some more - rock on!

i really disliked the bs we attended last (haven't gone for around 18 mnths) because of the material studied from the wts 'Isaiah' books - very downer, depressing, repetitive, uninteresting, uhhh, did I mention downer? They sucked big time imo.

boa

oh yah, i had a crush on a girl once at the bs, so that one was a favourite to me!

26

Would you get baptized again?

by JH in

jw
friends

i was baptized as a catholic, when i was very young, and then baptized in my late twenties as a jw.

which leads to my question.

if you joined another religion, would you get baptized again?

boa

not blewty likely.

I figure the first one in front of man, God and angels, will still be fine if required cuz you know two outta three ain't bad

boa

46

Were you raised as a dub or did you convert?

by BLISSISIGNORANCE in

jw
friends

i was a catholic all my life then in my early 30s i got baptized as a jw.

a friend of mine when in her 20s became a dub.

she always talked to me about the borg and troof and i listened.

boa

nice chatting with you tonight bliss,

i was born into it and was the most naivest (new word), hardcorest (same) dub in the family I think except for my gramma who goes very loopy when discussing the troof, which is pretty much all the time.

so its 3rd generation for me and as far as I concernced with my children this train ride stops here and believe you me, there gonna get all the preparation I can give them to defend them from such an org, any org, that would control your life so. Unfortunately some people just drift towards it anyway - sigh. I think the jws have finished me off for any religion but I may discover something to believe in after I recover a bit more.

like an alien forming in my belly ready to explode out of me, some common sense, practical, skeptical, reasoning, thinking part of me deep down, began to let itself be known. I think the alien inside didn't like bethel food, which I personally didn't mind that much, so it started to grumble way back then 6 yrs ago and recently, within the last month, after coming to this site and reading coc, it has torn my insides out, thank god for all of you that you can't see me here all stitched and bandaged up, but at least the alien is out and I am free and I don't drink so much anymore. Now he and I play chess and watch movies and stay up late telling dirty jokes which is fine as long as he's not too loud to wake up the wife - what a doll.

boa

if yer a witness and when yer fearful about something, uhhh, everything, just say this to yerself dubdubdubudbdubdubdubdubudubdubdub

4

A Question for former bethelites?

by eisenstein in

jw
friends

my sister and i were talking the other day and she told me that when you are first assigned to bethel they make you sign a letter of secrecy or something like "secret service agreement"?

i was just wondering if this is true.

if it is true then don't you agree that it is a hot bed for paranoia?.

boa

yes, there absolutely was a form that must be signed, at least when i was at C bethel in the late 90's. I distinctly remember it because it was one of several surprises a new one gets when becoming a bethelite. My wife told be out of the corner of her mouth that she didn't agree that the org was the end all be all in all cases and i shushed her cuz what a time to bring that out! anyway, bless her, she's helped me 'see the light' so not all was lost.

essentially it had several points i believe in a kind of bullet form that involved the oath of poverty for taxation purposes and a type of oath of allegience to be loyal to the organization. I read it carefully before signing but don't recall anymore at this time - what can I say, i've drank a lot of beer, rye and vodka since that time trying to 'cope' with my childhood and childish religion.

as for family 'secret' matters, it was publicly explained (and in the bethel manual) to the bethel 'family' from time to time that like normal 'families' there are private matters and sometimes embarrasing events, not to be shared with the 'outside' which means EVERYONE on the outside including those unfortunate dubs all around the world who don't get to be bethelites. Yes, although I was only there for just over a year, did i hear some strange ideas from various people and the platform.

What was funny with the idea mentioned above in another thread about pre-release information about convention publications was the 'new' hour requirements for ox and reg pioneers. Man that traveled like hellfire lightening all over cuz it wasn't specifically mentioned to wait for it to be publicised (in canada). Then, holy hell, the main brooklyn morning worship the following(?) wednesday (canada ties in on this date) did some serious ripping about it getting out. Of course it was too late, hell, in 5 minutes, it was out and too late! LOL It seems someone dropped the ball in the chain of command between canada and brooklyn but am not sure who the guilty sob is bless his souls for causing some excitement for once! No wonder everyone was excited and probably bitter it didn't happen about 3 decades ago imo.

boa

'of the I just broke my bethel vow - oops class' except did I mention, the vow states only for the time you're in bethel is it in effect.

23

PLEASE WELCOME FAIR

by Sassy in

jw
friends

.

i am going to let her tell you if she wants to give her details... but fair is one of our newbies... so new that as i post this she has only been in chat so far.. but has not yet made her first post..

so come on friends.. let's give her a warm welcome!!

boa

Hi fair,

Welcome to this site, we chatted tonight and it was a delight!

btw, i never got to telling you, but i'm 7 yrs yer senior lol.

catch up with yah later!

boa

'thats not fair!, oh wait a minute, it is.'

8

For ex- (or current heh heh) bethelites...

by boa in

jw
friends

hi all you former (or still in lurkers heh heh) bethelites.my question to you is: was your time in bethel the turning point in your jw life?

if so, what was it that started you on your way out?

boa 'bethel life was my key to the real life'

boa

The formatting for posting seems to be all messed up so I'll put my story in a new box. To the first question, my answer is, Yes, bethel was a turning point in my association with the jws. I suppose the seeds of change were developing before we went there, but I didn't recognize any such change for what is was, until now, five yrs later. My answer to the second question is that I (we, wiffy and I) went to bethel with a pie-in-the-sky view of the org and really knew so little about anything outside of the story published in the watchtower. So naturally, going there and seeing reality, not so much anything scandalous, but realizing these people were all just that, people, with real world problems and concerns, was quite a surprise - jeece I was SSOOOOOOOOO naive! Anyway, the bethel requirement to read the whole bible from genesis to revelation was a 'revelation' to me since I had never done it before. It got me thinking about many things in it which were so difficult to understand by wts doctrine that one either rejects it all or rolls over with the idea that you NEED the fds to help you understand the 'sacred secret'(s) of the Bible. Especially though, was the reading of Ecclesiastes a critical crossroads in my future with the dubs. Since that point subtle changes occured in my thinking and basically we couldn't wait to finish our 1 yr stint which we agreed to fulfill before leaving for 'family' reasons. If anyone attended the canadian bethel within the last 10 yrs, and is now out of the org officially or fading, please pm me if you wish to talk some more. boa