Don't forget - garybuss. I miss his unique perspective.
Incognito
JoinedPosts by Incognito
-
-
-
-
67
Dont shoot me!!
by angel eyes inok here we go...im going to put my head on the chopping board (so to speak).
i only came on here to meet new people and have chats etc...yes i am a jw and do love jah.....but im also just an average person who im pretty sure many of you would get on with if we had the time to chat about other things too.... i think some want me to go....sad but yes true.....if you all want me to go then i'll do that..im fine with it as i just want to please people...... i know jb and some say they want to go to my elders,and honestly im fine with that but surely if someone is threatening then they clearly dont want me on here...... time to go???????
or as big brother would say "who goes...you decide"?
-
-
Incognito
Angel Eyes, in your initial post of this thread, you said:
I think some want me to go....sad but yes true.....if you all want me to go then i'll do that..im fine with it as i just want to please people.....
Perhaps it is time that you stop trying to please other people and start pleasing yourself. Don't provoke others to beg you to stay but take responsibility for your own choices and actions.
If you want to participate on this Discussion Board, do it. Do it, not to please others, but to please, educate and enlighten yourself.
If you’re interested in ‘Truth’, take the time to read and contemplate what others have written regarding this organization and religion. Don’t blindly accept or reject what is written based on what anyone here writes, what you have been told or what you think you know, but verify information from your own investigation and experiences. There is much ‘Truth’ that can be gained by using your God given intelligence and reasoning ability, in looking outside of W/T literature or what is being spewed from the K/H platform.
In regards to pleasing others, it would probably shock you, the number of people that call themselves JW's, only to please other people.
-
51
Any JW's here?
by stillin inthis site is called "a discussion forum for jehovahs witnesses.
" maybe "for jehovah's witnesses entertainment" would fit better..
-
-
Incognito
Straighshooter said:
When postings start to degrade others on this forum, then that bothers me.
I agree, no-one should be attacking anyone else, but I find many Witnesses confuse contradictory discussion on the religion and its teachings, as a personal attack on them. I discussion with views opposing another person's, is not an attack. It is only a discussion.
Unfortunately, the W/T has conditioned JW's to see anyone that doesn't accept the WT view on matters without question, as an attack and hatred of the Witness individual and of JW's as a whole.
Anyone questioning JW 'belief's', especially after learning the W/T sanctioned explanation, is usually considered as not having a 'sheep like heart condition' and therefore, further discussion is a waste of time and discontinued.
pjschipper said:
So I thought well, we go door to door and meet people that are not inclined to listen and so do hate us.
I rest my case!
On this discussion board, many questions, views and opinions on JW issues are expressed, with no restriction (in adherence to the Posting Guidelines) as to the topic.
Where you encouraged or even allowed to have such open discussion at the Kingdom Hall or with your JW friends, even in Private?
The W/T has conditioned JW's that any such discussion is not allowed and is to be reported to the Elders so that the instigator can be 'dealt with'. 'Dealt with' = my term for an ultimatum to unquestionably accept the G/B current teaching or be removed from the group (Disfellowshipped).
pjschipper said:
There are out right lies! half-truths.
Just because you think something is a lie or 1/2 truth, does not necessarily make it so. Have you actually investigated any of these issues, not using W/T literature, before calling the matter a lie? 1 Thess. 5:21 says: "Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine."
If you are quick to denounce information without further investigation, just because it doesn't adhere to your pre-conceived ideals or official W/T spin, it is not making sure of all things. Proverbs 18:13 states "When anyone is replying to a matter before he hears it, that is foolishness on his part and a humiliation."
pjschipper said:
... as true christians today ...
This is a judgemental statement! Who gives you or anyone else the right to judge another person's Christian beliefs and activities as 'true'?
stillin said:
I don't know about any 607 BCE. Or any of the other stuff that can't be known.
Isn't this the core understanding that 'proves' the W/T is THE chosen organization?
The W/T says that this stuff IS KNOWN and that only they have the answers, as God's chosen Organization. If you don't understand, don't care or believe this to be true, do you really have a basis for putting your "faith" in the W/T?
stillin said:
I really would like for my life to have counted for something of value.
Just because you want or need something to be true, doesn't make it so!
Your life is yours to control, not for someone else to tell you what to do and lead you around. How you live and view your life, determines whether it is of value. You need to take charge of it and do what you feel is proper.
To have stood up for a set of principles that ...
What's to stop you from standing-up for a set of principles that you determine to be right, not ones dictated to you by someone else?
Jesus provided an example of how his followers should act and treat others. He often quoted the bible ("it is written") as support for his message. I don't recall he or any of his Disciples, peddling additional literature even if in support of the bible.
To be a Christian means to be a follower of Christ and Jesus provided very few requirements to be his follower. He said that 'his yoke is light' so living by his example would likely be easy and not burdensome, if following the simple requirements he put forth.
Following Jesus example should be something you do, because you want to and feel that it is right and proper to do, not because of a mandate from an organization with subsequent guilt, fear or punishment for non-compliance.
stillin said:
I still see the skeleton of the "truth" in there, but I want to be careful about my choices.
Just because there is discussion here critical of the organization and the changeable teachings put forth as 'truths', does not make everything taught from the W/T, 100% wrong.
Hitler was a great leader and some good came as a result of his leadership, but this doesn't reduce the fact that he was a lunatic murderer, responsible for the deaths of thousands. I'm not comparing the W/T to Hitler, but using his leadership as an example that good and bad, right and wrong can come from the same source.
There are many teachings that are great to live by and not necessarily exclusive to JW's. There are many JW's that are good and loving people with high morals and only wish to do what is right, as there are in the 'World'. Just because there are some good teachings and people, doesn't make an organization or JW's, God's chosen organization or people.
vilot said:
A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. "New light" never extinguishes older "light," but adds to it.
Interesting quote! Shame that JW's are conditioned to treat old W/T literature as un-trustworthy, 'Old Light' or too old to be useful.
stillin said:
frankly, I'm not so sure that ANYBODY knows when Jerusalem was destroyed for positive. I would EXPECT that there would be differences of OPINION on the matter.
The W/T does not put forth these matters as OPINION. They are to be adopted and proclaimed by JW adherents as fact. Openly questioning any W/T teaching by a Baptized JW, is viewed by the Elders (agents of the G/B) as questioning the authority and status of the G/B (leader), and you will be 'dealt with'.
stillin said:
Like maybe living up to the high ideals and principles that they proclaim.
Are high ideals and principles exclusive to Jehovah's Witnesses? Does no-one of the 'World' have high ideals or principles?
It is interesting that you state that they 'proclaim' these things and didn't use the words 'display' or 'practice'.
How do you justify, even in your own mind, when JW's or the W/T as an organization, display actions contrary to high ideals and principles? Paedophilia cover-ups and hush payments is one example as is the hidden W/T association with the UN for almost 10 years.
You may not believe in these things occurring. Do your own independent research and stop relying on the sanitised official W/T response or apathy or fear of looking further.
Personally, I've had money and items stolen from me by 3/4 of the active Witnesses I've had business dealings with. These are the same 'Brothers and Sisters' I'm supposed to be able to entrust my life with. I can't even trust them with a few bucks or some of my belongings. Where are these high ideals and principals you refer to?
stillin said:
To me, kindness and justice trumps 607 anytime!
So you don't believe the teachings put forth by the W/T?
From what I have seen over my 40+ years as an active JW, people of the 'World' often display more kindness and are more Just, than those I've known at the Kingdom Hall.
I have recently come to realize, that to be a "Christian", is not a title gained as part of a group, but a Standard, to be practiced and lived by an individual.
Acceptance by God and entrance to God's Kingdom is not something that Jehovah's Witnesses as a group will do. People will be individually judged, not by works reported to an organization, but by how they live and treat others.
Jesus demanded that we LOVE our Neighbours and to FORGIVE our Enemies and to treat others as we wish to be treated. How does shunning fit in here?
A reward (Eternal Life, God's Kingdom, Heaven, whatever) should not be the motivation to serve God and do what is right, but wanting to be as good a person as possible, with love for others and a desire to live our lives in a true and honest manner, should be.
It doesn't matter if there is ever a reward. It doesn't change my view of how I should live.
Incognito
-
114
inspired by palmtree67...who are the hot chicks here?......pics please
by oompa inblur your face a bit if you have to........cmon girls, you know you want to show off a bit...........oompa.
-
-
Incognito
oompa: I thought you had the hots for the one in the turbin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZybFl_pfMk
Great pics of the 4 ladies (+ Mary )
-
7
Listen to Roberto, former assembly overseer on the conference call as he speaks out against the Watchtower org.!
by koolaid-man insaturday july 18 six screens conference call attracted many listeners as barbara and joe anderson along with roberto, a former prominent elder and circuit assembly overseer in western europe spoke up with courage and conviction to the european government officials on the dangers of the watchtower society, jehovah's witnesses.
the call can be listened to by going to the following link, when on this page scroll down to 7-18-09. click this.
http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/sixscreens-conferencecall.html.
-
-
Incognito
The sooner these calls are made available as downloadable MP3s, the sooner I'll start sampling them.
The archive is not user-friendly.
I also hope that these are soon made downloadable as MP3s.
For now, I open the streaming feed in Windows Media Player within Internet Explorer, save it as a wav file, and use 'Free Audio Converter' to convert the wav file to a smaller MP3 that I can listen to through my portable MP3 player. This way, I can continue doing other things while listening, as I'm not tied to the computer for up to 7 hours.
As interesting and informative as many of these calls are, and I do appreciate Rick & Inez' efforts and comitment, 7 hours is too long. Maybe these calls should have a set time limit and only 1 main guest. I know I can stop listening at any time, but once started, I'd hate to miss anything.
-
29
Read My Dads Crazy Email Trying to Make me Panic bout Armageddon!!
by foolsparadise inmy mom emailed me and asked if they could come to town and go to our district convention with us.
i politley said no thank you we wont be attending.
we havent been to meeting in a long long time.
-
-
Incognito
Witnesses keep looking for any 'sign', no matter how small, that Harmageddon is only 'minutes' away. The keep putting faith in any anyone with ties to the society, that somehow, these people have some insider knowledge about the date of Armageddon.
My Inlaws had a visitor to their congregation, probably a year ago. I don't recall who he was but they said that 'he was very well versed in the bible and he was able to fiqure-out when the end would be. He said that it wouldn't be too much longer'. I've heard similar statements from others.
Many Witnesses don't seem to hold to long established teachings of the organization they hold so dear, but look for loopholes when it comes to the salvation of their own loved ones. For example, it has been a long established understanding that unless you are regular in meeting attendance, are baptised and a regular preacher of the good news, you basically have little hope of making it through armegeddon.
A 'friend' from within our cong now holds that due to the pressures of 'this system of things', all that is necessary to be recognized as a JW is attendance at the Memorial once per year. It turns out, his eldest daughter has moved away and 'living in sin' with some guy. Although she wants nothing to do with the 'truth', my 'friend' instructs her to atleast attend the Memorial every year. He also told her that if he or her mom calls her and tells her to go somewhere or do something, to not question it but do it immediately as this will save her at armegeddon. He is referring to passing on the 'flee' instructions that he anticipates receiving from the Society.
The Society seems to have active witnesses wound-up more than ever. Although we haven't been to meetings for close to 10 years, we keep getting told to get back to the hall as the 'ark doors are about to close, and it may be too late if we wait any longer'.
Truely, most Witnesses miss the point of Christianity and the reason to serve God. Just as with the Pharasees that are discussed in the bible, there is much focus on legalism, loopholes, what is said between the lines and ultimately, unquestioning allegiance to an man-made organization. There has been far too much emphasis placed on saving their necks, not on love of God and mankind.
-
27
As of July 1st No more reimbursements directly to CO's etc. from congregations.
by cattails inwell if i read it correctly it seems that at the spanish extj.com forum.
there's a letter (in spanish of course) saying there's a change in the.
way reimbursement of expenses are going to be made for co's, and.
-
-
Incognito
cattails said:
the CO will send his amount for expenses to the Branch and then the Branch will bill the congregations.
Sounds to me like an accounting expense to the branch. Maybe this expense will be marked-up and will provide some 'non-profit' revenue to the branch.
I also wonder if the Society will establish a fixed cost per Publisher for CO overhead, much like the cost per publisher to use an assembly hall.
-
26
MUST SEE!!! Best Youtube Video on Theocratic Warfare that I've ever seen!!!
by Tuesday inhey everyone, i don't think the maker of the video is on the board so i figured i'd post this video here.
this one absolutely floored me, it was put together so concisely; it's just incredibly difficult to deny the theocratic warfare method when viewing this video... without further ado, the video:.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6yssa2dj_u.
-
-
Incognito
Many Witnesses are very much into technicalities. If the question asked doesn't conform to the language commonly used by the Society or JW's, then Witnesses often feel justified (I have witnessed various examples over the years) in 'playing dumb', evading the question or outright providing contrasting information since this is not technically lying. In this example, because the courtroom would be considered a hostile environment to this witness and a witness only needs to answer directly asked questions, he wouldn't be compelled to offer clarifying information.
I'm not familiar with the 'Custody' document discussed in the first video, but I suspect that it might be a custody brochure or other such name?? Because the lawyer asking the questions might not be familiar with WT speak, jargon or terminology, then he didn't ask the correct technical question so the Elder may have felt justified in not answering, denying knowledge of the document and otherwise not offering additional information. If the lawyer had asked about a 'Custody brochure' instead of a custody packet or book, the witness might have had to acknowledged the existence of this 'brochure' if in fact, that is how it is referred to by the Society.
Another example of technicalities in wording is the typical Witness response that JW's do not "shun" when questioned by non-JW's about shunning. Because JW's refer to the practice as "Disfellowshipping", the word shunning is foreign to them and feel truthful in their denial that they 'shun'.
The word 'Secret' in this case has somewhat of a double meaning. Although I might know that the book exists, the existence of the book is not a secret but because I'm not permitted to view the contents of the book as the Elders consider it to be 'confidential' information, the contents contained therein is a secret to me.
In a religion that promotes itself as treating all members on an equal basis as 'brothers', should not all brothers have equal information available to them? This book, as Wasanelder Once pointed out, is an instruction manual. I can understand not providing copies to all members of the congregation, but I DO believe that a copy should be included in every K-H library as reference material, freely accessible to any congregation member wishing to review it.
As already stated, the fact that there are only certain people allowed access to this book, is clearly a means of information control. Where is the Biblical example that justifies this practice? What procedural information needs to be withheld from r&f members of GOD'S supposed true organization especially when God already provided an instruction manual freely available to all who want to read and follow it- the Bible?
Wasanelder Once said:
Does the fact that some, if not most elders, do not take the time to read and apply what it says make it the source of some secret plot to set people up?
Don't forget, these Elders view the W/T as God's truly chosen Organization and JW's as God's people. Information provided by the W/T Organization is viewed as coming from God himself. Elders are considered to be directly appointed by God. As such, all Elders entrusted with participation in a Judicial Committee, have a serious responsibility as Sheppard's of God's Flock and Judges over the worthiness and repentance of others. These Elders need to be intimately familiar with all policies, procedures and guidelines related to that responsibility and be prepared to apply and live by those policies. Anything less would be shirking their responsibilities and doing a disservice to the Congregation and to God.
mraimondi said:
... although those notes could be personal, and it would make sense if they shouldnt be read.
I understand that the margin note information, is supplementary and updated information provided by the W/T Org. verbally at the Elders School or Meetings. The notes are hand written by each individual Elder. Again, what information in an instruction manual would be personal, confidential or otherwise shouldn't be read by others?
Since the margin note info is supplementary information to an instruction manual, shouldn't the pages be able to be updated (ie: binder form) and the information be provided in printed format directly from the Society? I was lead to believe that all JW teachings are consistent and uniform throughout the earth. If information is not provided equally for all Elder books in circulation, how can new Elders have the same information as long term Elders? How can this instruction manual be followed and applied consistently by Elders at any given time when the books may not be updated consistently? Interpretation of the verbal informantion provided, could also be understood or written inconsistantly from Elder to Elder.
mraimondi said:
the pioneer book was supposed to be a "privelege" to those who pioneer, we were told not to lend it out, but that we should show others in order to encourage them to do the same.
I'm not saying that you or the people within your Cong treated it this way, but some could interpret this not as encouragement, but a flaunting of 'I'm privileged and have something you don't have. If you don't Pioneer, you're not good enough to have one'.
mraimondi said:
Again, my experience seems to be quite different than the people here.
You were 'fortunate' that your experience was positive. Too bad what you experienced is the exception and not the rule. It would be easy for both extremes to criticize and discard the experiences of the other only because the other experience was a direct contrast to their own.
I think many of us see differences in Elder Bodies from Congregation to Congregation and from Elder to Elder. Some Elders display the best of intensions and genuinely only desire to help others, while too many like the power and prestige the position offers and use it to their own advantage. Some Elders have stronger leadership qualities while others prefer to follow along. Often, the entire 'atmosphere' of the Elder body is determined by one or two stronger personality types while others follow their lead and try not to make waves.
Perhaps in your case, the Elders with the best intensions had a strong influence over the remaining Elders in the body. Perhaps in many other congregations, the oposite is true. -
231
Name Things JWs Believe That Are Not Actually Biblically Provable
by minimus inhere's one example: being a congregation publisher.
nowhere in the bible does it say you should be a "publisher" and turn in your time if you preach.
they try to twist the scriptures by saying that numbers are constantly being recorded in the bible so then conforming to the rules of being a publisher is from the scriptures.. yeah, right..
-
-
Incognito
Regarding the Cross discussion, here is a clickable link to a Youtube video describing Ancient Torture Machines (Machines of Malice). This was on the Discovery Channel a few months ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEmhYIrk5A4&feature=related
Zoom up to 2:15 to see the video on cruxifiction.
-
31
I can't imagine doing THAT in my wildest dreams.....
by AK - Jeff inputting on a three piece suit to spend a 90 degree summer day knocking on doors and trespassing!dragging an entire family, including babies and young children to three or four day meetings in an outdoor stadium, living in a seedy motel room for the week.getting home from work and spending the next six hours cramming for a 'theocratic review', getting the entire family ready to go, gulping down dinner, and speeding off to the hall, and then finally getting home around 11 pm, hurrying off to bed so that everyone could get up for work and school in the morning!going to school to explain to the teachers why little johnny can't color pictures of santa, salute the flag of his country, eat birthday cake with all the other 5 year olds, bow his head when prayer is offered, or exchange valentines with all the cute 5 year old girls in class.
and then explaining with grace why he is not immersed in a cult!well, on and on!
these things were typical of my witness life - now i cannot imagine ever doing such silly things, and especially thinking that somehow they would bring pleasure to my god!.
-
-
Incognito
AK-Jeff,
If you can't imagine this:
Dragging an entire family, including babies and young children to three or four day meetings in an outdoor stadium, living in a seedy motel room for the week.
Get aload of this:
When I grew-up in the 'truth', we attend our DC - for 7 and sometimes 8 DAYS. Sessions used to go to 9PM. Even our Circuit Assembies used to start on Friday evening and run late into Saturday evening, two full weekends per year.
One year, my parents couldn't afford to stay close to the DC, so we traveled over 100+ miles each way - every day! Not many cars then had air conditioning and were not as reliable as today, so I remember breaking down on the side of the highway on one of the days.
I recall the Society having a rooming department where, if you had a DC in close proximity to your home, they'd hound encourage you to open your home to allow Witnesses from outside of your area, to stay with you for the DC. Once, JW relations allowed other witnesses to stay with them and the visitors expected breakfast before getting ready for the day and also asking if they could stay for a week following the DC, to sight-see as they were on vacation.
It's hard to remember all the particulars but I remember that there was field service on at least one of the DC days. Your congregation 'group' would meet at the Assembly at a predetermined location and then everyone would go & blitz the city. I don't recall ever going in FS during an assembly and I believe many others didn't either although many did.
The stadiums were generally outdoors where often, the only seats were in the direct sun with no overhead covering. You'd often get sunburned in 90`F heat, bird pooped upon, drenched in the rain and pelted with sand when the wind kicked-up. Everyone had to have umbrellas and generally carried plastic garbage bags to wear over your suit/dress if it rained.
Often the seats would be so hot, you'd burn yourself sitting on them, if you were lucky fortunate enough to rate a seat. Sometimes you'd get the hard wooden benches or if you were really late, get to sit on the hard concrete ground, picnic style, so you'd better hope you remembered to bring blankets. All the time, you'd better be dressed as a good little dubbie, pretend to pay attention and not complain that you were too hot, hungry, uncomfortable or had to pee. Don't forget, there was a quiz the following week at your hall, so you'd better write something down incase you were put on the spot to give an answer.
I know this has been mentioned plenty of times in the past, but the closing prayer would last as long as a talk, all the while you're standing, swaying foot to foot and generally muttering under your breath 'hurry-up, Amen already!'.
Washrooms (especially women's) had long line-ups where it would often take 20+ minutes just to get into the room.
I can recall a local venue being directly on the international airport flight path, so planes would routinely fly low on their approach, deafening all in attendance.
Through my teenage years, all the teens would parade themselves on the ramps into the stadium, and show-off their latest fashions. If you didn't match their fashon standards, you couldn't be part of their clique (not that I wanted to hang around with snots snobs) and were considered a nobody. Some of you will know of this location as I've read about this same experience and location mentioned here previously.
The sound systems were often too loud and the echo made understanding anything said, an exhausting excercise. It didn't seem to matter where you'd go in and around those buildings, it all seemed to echo. One year, I noticed that the best sound was far out in the parking lot.
Early-on, hot meals were available at the DC for both lunch and dinner. Line-ups were so long, you often got the 2nd rate items with little time to eat before the sessions restarted. After the days became shorter, lunch was only available, then they cut out hot meals and offered items such as crappy burgers, ice cream, fruit bags and soda all dispensed from de-centralized stands. I know of a few people that had gotten food poisoning at the DC including my (now) S/O who was violently ill on the last day of an 8 hour away DC.
As I got older, food was cut-out alltogether and you had to bring your own. In doing this, food got better (and available all day) although it meant having to lug more stuff in and out or going off premisis as we usually did. Venues also got better, often at indoor, air conditioned arenas. The number of days was also reduced to the three or four days you mention.
After we were married, our 'assigned' DC was again an 8 hour drive away, even though there was a DC only about 2 hours from home. Being good little dubbies, we went to where we were assigned and only used the Societies list of 'Approved' places to stay. After calling virtually all of the places listed, we were only able to find 1 room, about 45 min. from the DC. After traveling all that distance, the 'approved' place was a dirty, dump of a room that you could rent by the hour, above a bar where the bathroom was shared by all the rooms on that floor. Needless to say, we got on the phone and were lucky to find another, more suitable room for 1 night and then another place for the remaining 2 nights. We drove staight home after the Sunday session.
'We' have not attended a DC now for upwards of 10 years. I believe many witnesses are still 'priviledged' to clean the DC venue top to bottom, a week or so before attending as 'delegates'. Talk about slave labour! We know of JWs that told us about going to redecorate and plant flowers OUTSIDE of the DC venue. WTH! Gotta present a good appearance to the world you know!
I don't know how we all did it then. When I think about the last time I attended a DC, it was an exhausting and demoralizing experience, even though it was ONLY three days. If you haven't experienced anything longer than a 3 or 4 day DC that finishes at 4 or 5 PM, consider yourself lucky. You have no idea and need to understand that for some of us, the GREAT TRIBULATION has already occured.
Being a JW is truely a unique experience, compared to what most people in the 'World' need to go through.