Posts by Incognito

55

Israel National News reports a most amazing story about JWs

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/flash.aspx/288677#.ux9165ao7l9.

court rejects missionary lawsuit against netanya schools for voiding leasethe tel aviv magistrates court has rejected a claim by a missionary group, saying that the school they had been renting space in unlawfully voided their contract , and asking the court to instruct the school to pay nis 108,000 in compensation and mental anguish, as well as legal expenses.. it began when a missionary group, via a non-profit organization called "mitzpe l'yisrael", rented space at the raziel school in netanya to conduct daily afternoon activities.

shortly after signing the rental agreement , the school authorities discovered that the group was, in reality, the notorious missionary sect of "jehovah's witnesses".

Incognito

The wording of the article is somewhat confusing.

It began when a missionary group, via a non-profit organization called "Mitzpe L'Yisrael", rented space at the Raziel school

So was "Mitzpe L'Yisrael" an exisiting organization that the JWs partnered with to use to their advantage?

If it is an exisiting organization, is it an offshoot of the WT or is it a non-JW group?

Since it mentions a missionary group VIA non-profit organization Mitzpe L'Yisrael - did the JWs actually call themselves NIS? (whatever that means)

If they referred to themselves as NIS but rented the school through Mitzpe L'Yisrael, this probably added even more confusion to the school administration as to who they actually are.

rebel8 asked:

To play the devil's advocate (or to ask an obvious question, depending upon your perspective), how is this deceptive if the name they used means Watchtower?

The lease was for "daily afternoon activities". What is that? Field service meeting? They could have just used someone's home.

Although they may have used the name Watchtower as part of a new name, the new name was obviously not recognized by the average citizen or by the school administration, to be 'Jehovah's Witnesses'.

I don't pretend to know the status of JWs in Israel, it appears that similar to some other countries, there is some sort of opposition against them.

The court seems to support the opposition while recognizing that in using an alternate name as a front, the JWs intended to misrepresent who they really are.

30

International Conventions for 2014 - Landover, MD - What is an International Convention?

by insearchoftruth in

have been out of touch for a while, i see that there is an 'international' convention this year in landover, md (fed ex field) and there are no english conventions in either richmond or hampton, va. what is an 'international convention', is it merely a consolidation of all the other conventions meant to whip up some fervor amongst the masses?.

Incognito

Doubting Bro said:

Finally, I've heard (a family member told me and I believe that person) that there have been local needs parts in some congregations to quit mummering about the venue!

Ah! The usual procedure: The beatings will continue - until morale improves.

I suspect the local needs part amounted to the following: 'How dare you complain about the venue Jehovah has graciously made available through his faithful slave. Readjust YOUR attitude Brothers and be grateful!'

Watch to see if the Elder giving that 'advice' will have an excuse afterward, as to why he and his family could not attend that convention but instead, had to attend an alternate (read: more comfortable) convention venue on another weekend.

30

International Conventions for 2014 - Landover, MD - What is an International Convention?

by insearchoftruth in

have been out of touch for a while, i see that there is an 'international' convention this year in landover, md (fed ex field) and there are no english conventions in either richmond or hampton, va. what is an 'international convention', is it merely a consolidation of all the other conventions meant to whip up some fervor amongst the masses?.

Incognito

Insearch:

When discussing restrictions on attending, unless the 'rules' have changed since I stopped attending, restrictions are placed on attending an International Convention in another country, not the IC that the local congregation is assigned to.

If your wife's study conductor congregation is assigned to the one at Fed Ex Field, then that venue is where your wife would automatically also attend as that is the convention location for her local congregation. In the very least, the Sunday talk is always called a Public Discourse whether any of the public actually attend or not.

19

EVIDENCE CONVENTION-ATTENDANCES ARE IN DECLINE?

by steve2 in

jw
friends

there are many threads on this forum about the stultifying tedium of the conventions.

memories of one convention merge with every other convention over the years with few sticking out as high points.. in recent years, there have been lots of anecdotal reports (primarily from western countries) of an astonishingly low number of baptismal candidates at these conventions, and in particular district conventions - especially compared to the higher numbers who presented for baptisms in earlier decades.

is this decline also reflected in general attendances at the conventions?.

Incognito

In this part of the world, the DC's had historically been scheduled during July & August, months when children are normally away from school on summer vacation.

I understand that over the past decade or so, many summer conventions have been scheduled earlier, often in early June when most children are still in school. While parents of younger children may opt to remove their children from school on Friday to attend the DC, teens may not have that luxury as they may need to write final exams at that time.

In this manner, the WT is responsible for the decline in attendees, particularly on Friday.

As far as conditions are concerned, JWs today have far less to endure with a 3 day, 10-5 program, often held in an air conditioned venue.

When I was growing-up, summer conventions were 5, 6 and sometimes 8 days long and would end each night at 9pm except for the final day. As venues were usually baseball or football stadiums or horse race tracks, attendees would remain outdoors in full sun & rain while sitting on hard, uncomfortable wooden slatted seats or benches while dressed in suits and dresses.

As there was usually only one convention designated for a large area, there were few options to split the convention over multiple weekends. Even if another convention was located relatively close-by, attending it would have been considered a rebelious act as anyone doing so would not be attending their assisgned convention.

13

Milking the convention cash cow for all it's worth - some questions

by Fernando in

if memory serves there have been discussions about:.

pressure to donate to cover convention expenses far beyond actual expenses.

obtaining venue subsidies and or sponsorships but not passing on the savings to the flock.

Incognito

Sir82 said:

The [stay at private homes] arrangement was last done well over 50 years ago. Parking tickets have not been used for 20+ years. Much of your information seems to be well out-of-date.

I am about 50 and clearly recall (and have a few photos) of delegates that stayed at my parents home through multiple years. This continued through the mid 1970s as I recall one couple staying in a relatives RV in the back yard. Those same people had the nerve to ask if they could stay in the RV the entire week after the DC as they were on vacation and wanted to sightsee and visit various area attractions. They were P-Oed when they were told NO.

In the 1980s after I was married, we were to 'host' a couple for a convention but one of them became ill prior so they didn't stay with us afterall.

13

Milking the convention cash cow for all it's worth - some questions

by Fernando in

if memory serves there have been discussions about:.

pressure to donate to cover convention expenses far beyond actual expenses.

obtaining venue subsidies and or sponsorships but not passing on the savings to the flock.

Incognito

When does the WT do anything for the benefit of the members?

I recall some years ago, although there was a multiple week DC venue only a few hours away, our congregation was asigned to an alternate location almost 8 hours away. Being good little JWs, we adhered to the principal of attending where we were assigned instead of going where it was easiest for us even though we had an 11 month old child.

For this same DC, by the time we received our list of 'approved' accomodations, there were vitrually no vacancies remaining so we booked one of the few remaining facilities which ended-up being at least 30 minutes farther past the DC stadium location. When we finally arrived to check-in, the dumpy/dirty rooms were above a noisey country bar (tavern) and were not equipped with their own bathroom facilities. I think the rooms were normally rented by the hour.

We called other facilities and located another room for one night and then needed to find other accomodations. I think we stayed at 3 places while attending that DC.

With a young child, there are many items that are required throughout a whole day so we took a small foldable stoller which we only used for transporting supplies and for the baby to sleep in while in larger areas, never blocking aisles or pathways. Of course, we received nothing but hassles regarding the stroller from the Attendants.

Although we continued as JWs for numerous years following, I think that DC among other reasons, was the begining of the end for us.

Edited to add: I think the other rooms we stayed-in, were not on the "approved" list, not that we cared. I also seem to recall, we did not contribute $ to that DC.

16

UN NGO Association Document

by pronomono in

does anyone know where the un moved their statement about the watchtower ngo association?

it used to be that you could use the search function (see: http://search.un.org/search?q=watchtower+bible+tract+society+filetype%3apdf&btng=search+un+website&output=xml_no_dtd&client=un_website_en&proxystylesheet=un_website_en&oe=utf-8&ie=utf-8.

&adv=true&lr=lang_en&num=100&sort=score&submit2=search&ulang=en&entqrm=0&ud=1&exclude_apps=1&site= ) and find it in the results, but as of january, i can't find it anymore.

Incognito

pronomono said:

I sent their DPI division an email asking for information or official documentation relating to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society's previous NGO association and never received a reply in my inbox or junk mail.

The UN had initially been overwhelmed with enquiries regarding the WT's association as an NGO. It is not the UN's purpose to answer questions about who is associated with them and membership is probably a non-issue to anyone other than JWs.

Since so many were interested in the matter, posting the info was likely the easiest and least resource intensive method to provide information to everyone interested.

As the letter is no longer a current matter to the UN, they moved it to the archive site where it remains accessible but not as part of the UN's main website. The archive link notjustyet posted, clearly indicates the link to UN.org.

JWs remain suspicious of any non-favorable information as they blame "apostates" for making it up so I understand your desire to reference the letter directly from the UN. A problem remains: Even when the letter was posted on the UN's main site, JWs would often state that apostates hacked the UN website and posted the letter without the UN's knowledge.

The fact that so many active JW's deny that the WT ever would be associated with the UN is a positive thing. When factual evidence is finally accepted by a few JWs with ability to think and reason, it has prompted some of them to look deeper into the WT's teachings and history.

64

Should I allow my mom to see the grandchildren?

by confusedandalone in

so i am not officially da/do yet and my family has shunned me hard.

today crying my mother calls me to beg to see my children... should i let her?

i feel that if you can speak abusive of your own son and wife and shun the.

Incognito

First off, I went against my better judgement and decided to tell her that she could see them with me being present. She does not want this since I am known to be in opposition to the WTBTS

Regardless of your views of the WT, if she did not intend to influence the children, you would have no reason to oppose anything she had to say.

Edited to add: I think some of their statements need to be thrown back on them.

Although we as X-JWs understand the meaning of their comments, I think forcing them to explain themselves can be embarassing to them as many of the statements are not reasonable or loving. Most cannot be supported from the bible although they will cherry pick certain scriptures to show support but in actual fact, many scriptures are taken out of context and the meaning does not relate to their purpose to refer to it.

64

Should I allow my mom to see the grandchildren?

by confusedandalone in

so i am not officially da/do yet and my family has shunned me hard.

today crying my mother calls me to beg to see my children... should i let her?

i feel that if you can speak abusive of your own son and wife and shun the.

Incognito

Confused,

While you have shared your experiences and have requested input, ultimately, it is you who experiences and best understands the situation. Most here can only sympathize.

You mention that you are 'known to be in opposition to the WTBTS'.

While you have rights to your own views, opinions and beliefs which your mother ought to be respectful of even if she doesn't agree, your mother is known to hold beliefs which are contrary to those you wish your children to be taught. As she is also known to oppose the direction and the choices you and your wife have made for your children, it is easy to see that she will blatantly disrespect your authority by attempting to influence your children if given any opportunity. This is reason enough to deny access to your children regardless of the manner which she has been treating you.

64

Should I allow my mom to see the grandchildren?

by confusedandalone in

so i am not officially da/do yet and my family has shunned me hard.

today crying my mother calls me to beg to see my children... should i let her?

i feel that if you can speak abusive of your own son and wife and shun the.

Incognito

I would suggest that you not permit any visits, supervised or not - not without them earning it.

At this point, your parents have done nothing to undo their unloving attitudes and actions against you and your wife yet your mother turns on the waterworks and expects to be given anything she wants. I do expect that your parents are a package deal so if your mother is provided visitation, your father also benefits.

By you giving-in to her attempt to manipulate you, you are indirectly saying to your parents and to your children that what your parents say negatively about you is correct and their actions are justified.

Your parents each individually made a conscience decision to treat you in the manner they have over the past months. They could have made a decision to not do so if even only for the purpose to maintain a relationship with their grandchildren, but they didn't. They burned bridges. They must be forced to realize that every action has risk and a consequence so the consequence for treating you as they have is not only cutting you off but also loosing their relationship with their grandchildren

Treating you or your wife as they have is totally unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Their behavior sets a bad example for your children and as your responsibility is to safeguard your children's welfare, inappropriate behavior should not be condoned.

Make it clear to your parents how you feel and why you must take this firm stance and let them think on this for a while. If after some time, they show efforts to make amends, only then should you consider permitting them association with your entire family.

Make them earn the privilage to visit with you and your family.