Milking the convention cash cow for all it's worth - some questions

by Fernando 13 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  Fernando

  If memory serves there have been discussions about:

  • pressure to donate to cover convention expenses far beyond actual expenses

  • obtaining venue subsidies and or sponsorships but not passing on the savings to the flock

  • parking fees to generate more revenue

  • EFTPOS and credit card facilities

  Tonight I suddenly wondered if anyone has any information on what undisclosed kick-backs the Watchtower might be collecting from hotels on the approved list? If so what percentage? Would they be as bold as 50%?

  Is there any proof of coercion to stick to the approved list?

  Did arranging accommodation in private homes stop in favour of hotels that could and would pay "commissions"?

  Surely our favourite council of octo-popes wouldn't go to all the trouble of drawing up a list of approved or recommended hotels if there wasn't anything in it for them?

  (Apologies if this has been asked and answered elsewhere.)
• 

  mynameislame

  They need to have a list of aproved hotels even if it does not benefit them. There are some pretty sketchy places and one would hope, at least part of the reason, is to vet out the sketchy ones. That being said my dad always got a better price through his credit card than the dubs were getting through the borg.

  I'd be intrested to know how the prices match up compared to the online sites. I bet it isn't that much different, the hotels have pretty much pefected the art of pricing their rooms. Some of the online sites buy a block of rooms at a discount and them sell them for a profit. I wonder if that is what the borg is doing? That would explain why it is so important to only book using the JW secret code.
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  sir82

  I don't know if you would call it a "kick back", and it's not particularly sinister.

  The WTS makes arrangements with hotels. In exchange for a promise of lower than normal prices for delegates, the WTS gets comped rooms and can accumulate frequent-stayer points, both of which can be used for Bethel heavies.

  The same arrangement can be made by anyone. If you were to go to your local Sheraton & arrange to have 200 rooms occupied over a certain weekend, they'd happily give you a few free rooms. It has nothing to do with them being Octo-popes.

  The [stay at private homes] arrangement was last done well over 50 years ago. Parking tickets have not been used for 20+ years. Much of your information seems to be well out-of-date.

  In most cases, it is a win-win-win situation: delegates get lower rates, the WTS gets the perks, and hotels have higher occupancy rates.

  Of course, there are exceptions - sometimes the reduced rate is not all that reduced, or might even end up being higher. But as stated, the majority of the time, everybody wins.

  Look, I'm no fan of the GB, but organizing group hotel stays and getting comped rooms is done thousands of times every month by thousands of organizations. There's plenty enough to criticize them for - picking on them for making a good business deal makes little sense.
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  mynameislame

  picking on them for making a good business deal makes little sense.

  While I agree with that staement, they should be using that good business deal to make things easier on their members not to add cash to their pockets. I have yet to see those comped rooms used to help the less fortunate at the KH.
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  sir82

  I have yet to see those comped rooms used to help the less fortunate at the KH.

  There is a "special needs rooming request" form that can be filled out. Every year there is a KM article reminding the congregation of its availablilty.

  It is designed for poor JWs to request free rooms to attend a convention.

  Of course, that form must be filled out and turned into the congregation service committee, who then determines if the applicant is "exemplary" enough to be approved.

  Of course, there is no definition of "exemplary", and standards vary widely.

  But I have seen some poor JWs, not necessarily bg shots or heavy hitters, get approved for the free rooms.

  That being said:

  There are comped rooms at "Joe's Rent-an-hour Airport Motel", and there are comped rooms at the Hyatt Regency.

  Which one do you think goes to Sister Widow's-Mite, and which one goes to the head of the Bethel Service Department?
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  picking on them for making a good business deal makes little sense.

  ....if they were honest about the whole thing. All they gotta say is "We negotiate the best rates we can, and if we fill up the rooms, we get comped rooms for our delegates, mostly for Bethelite speakers, but some for those in need." Then they could throw a comped room at the seedier hotels to the members, places where Bethel heavies wouldn't stay anyway. Instead they cry about how they have slaved to provide for the members to get decent rates at decent locations, ALL THIS WORK FOR THE MEMBERS. They strong-arm the members into cooperating with the arrangement even if the members would rather make a different arrangement for their own comfort or convenience. "Don't stay at our hotels and we examine your qualifications to continue as a servant/elder/pioneer."

  When I had stopped attending, but was still going to the location with my wife to enjoy my day away from the convention, I called the hotel that was most convenient. They said they already sold all their Watchtower rooms, but had a similar rate without that arrangement. I think I paid less than one dollar more per night for my room in the same hotel. This place was walkable to the event, they knew it, they didn't give much of a break because they knew they would sell out.
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  Incognito

  When does the WT do anything for the benefit of the members?

  I recall some years ago, although there was a multiple week DC venue only a few hours away, our congregation was asigned to an alternate location almost 8 hours away. Being good little JWs, we adhered to the principal of attending where we were assigned instead of going where it was easiest for us even though we had an 11 month old child.

  For this same DC, by the time we received our list of 'approved' accomodations, there were vitrually no vacancies remaining so we booked one of the few remaining facilities which ended-up being at least 30 minutes farther past the DC stadium location. When we finally arrived to check-in, the dumpy/dirty rooms were above a noisey country bar (tavern) and were not equipped with their own bathroom facilities. I think the rooms were normally rented by the hour.

  We called other facilities and located another room for one night and then needed to find other accomodations. I think we stayed at 3 places while attending that DC.

  With a young child, there are many items that are required throughout a whole day so we took a small foldable stoller which we only used for transporting supplies and for the baby to sleep in while in larger areas, never blocking aisles or pathways. Of course, we received nothing but hassles regarding the stroller from the Attendants.

  Although we continued as JWs for numerous years following, I think that DC among other reasons, was the begining of the end for us.

  Edited to add: I think the other rooms we stayed-in, were not on the "approved" list, not that we cared. I also seem to recall, we did not contribute $ to that DC.
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  eyeuse2badub

  It would be a real good thing for those still attending meetings to casually approach the elders and ask them why CA's costs are so much when the Assembly Halls have been paid off for years. I was asked that question when I was an elder, and frankly had no answer---but it did get me to thinking. Where does the money go? And why are we not being 100% honest about costs?

  Just saying!

  eyesue2badub
• 

  Incognito

  Sir82 said:

  The [stay at private homes] arrangement was last done well over 50 years ago. Parking tickets have not been used for 20+ years. Much of your information seems to be well out-of-date.

  I am about 50 and clearly recall (and have a few photos) of delegates that stayed at my parents home through multiple years. This continued through the mid 1970s as I recall one couple staying in a relatives RV in the back yard. Those same people had the nerve to ask if they could stay in the RV the entire week after the DC as they were on vacation and wanted to sightsee and visit various area attractions. They were P-Oed when they were told NO.

  In the 1980s after I was married, we were to 'host' a couple for a convention but one of them became ill prior so they didn't stay with us afterall.
• 

  Bugbear

  Thoght mayby this exp. from sweden could be of interest

  What they did i Sweden anyway, since they sold ”our” assembly hall, was that they booked a complex Hotel center up north in the high mountain region (skiing resort) several weekends, during of season, and told the Hotel owner that they could fill the hotel complex with 800-1000 guest, each one individually paying for their rooms or foods in the restaurant. This for two nights. Guess if the Hotel owner gladly let them have for free all the “conference” facilities. And of course the speakers or those in charge of this conference had their rooms and food free.

  This made several hundred cars and busses travel more than 300 km, turn and return. Forcing poor families to spend about $ 100 /night + rest. Food. Of course during the convention the speakers always demand the audience to give their contribute for all the arrangement that the society had provided for??!!

  This kept on for a couple of years. But the brothers soon discovered that attendance figures dropped dramatically. And I guess The Hotel owners soon find another way of getting their guests.

  Bugbear