Posts by Incognito

53

My Dad wants to study with me

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

so my parents continue to pester me about getting baptized.

the other day my dad told me that i was old enough to make a decision, and was wondering why i wasn't ready (assembly is in a few weeks) so i told him calmly that i have many doubts and if i were to get baptized it has to be 100 percent my idea.

he was a little annoyed by this, and now wants to study the "is there a creator that cares about you" book (which is complete bs) with me.

Incognito

As a son, and almost 18, - Spiral

Son: - Undercover

I think BlackWolf is female.

While I too am against this study, according to WT, it is your father's obligation to "take the lead" and study every week with those in his "household". If he's not doing that, he is not living up to his "dedication" and "headship", not that you want to necessarily throw that at him.

Perhaps agree to the 'study', at least until the assembly has past. If he's anything similar to my father which by your comments, he appears to be, he will by then have lost interest and the pressure on you will be lessened for a time.

I agree with other comments regarding your becoming baptized will only feed your father's ego and need for approval. My father only held a family 'study' when he was short on hours while trying to be appointed as elder. If he had enough hours, he didn't give a damn about family study, or about family for that matter.

18

Thread Post View Is Stuck At 10 & Can't Be Changed!

by Divergent in

i browse this site on mobile and noticed that the thread post view is now stuck at 10. previously, i could set it at 20 and it stays that way, but now if i set it at 20, it goes back to 10 again the moment i click on another topic.

i hope that you can look into this as it is extremely irritating for me to keep having to change it.

i want to view as many posts as possible in one page!

Incognito

I notice today that this issue appears to be resolved. Thank you Simon.

I wanted to acknowledge the correction as not only complaints should be reported.

18

Thread Post View Is Stuck At 10 & Can't Be Changed!

by Divergent in

i browse this site on mobile and noticed that the thread post view is now stuck at 10. previously, i could set it at 20 and it stays that way, but now if i set it at 20, it goes back to 10 again the moment i click on another topic.

i hope that you can look into this as it is extremely irritating for me to keep having to change it.

i want to view as many posts as possible in one page!

Incognito

The changes Simon made did not correct the issue but in some ways, made it worse.

I notice now when I click for 20 posts to be displayed per page, the posts displayed doesn't always change from 10 but often, the final page is then displayed.

Although I have flushed the browser cache on all my various devices, this issue is common to each.

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

Incognito

that if something is impral or disgusting then it is there full unlawful.

Impral???

Something you might consider 'disgusting', does not necessarily make it unlawful.

Child abuse is not only disgusting, it is illegal in most parts of the world.

Your original topic was in regards WT's responsibilities when an accusation is made, particularly when a person with no prior history is accused. You also mentioned pushing for additional mandatory reporting laws.

As you're receiving responses that are not supportive to WT, you then derailed the discussion by including age of consent and disgusting practice issues among others, even though those matters have nothing to do with the original topic.

If WT was truly interested in protection of children, they would not need to be forced to report abuses through laws with 'teeth', but would be demonstrating leadership in effectively dealing with this matter. Instead, they oppose even any suggestion of changing how matters are handled as was clearly demonstrated during Geoffrey Jackson's testimony at the ARC.

I don't agree with the idea that Watchtower should be sued to oblivion but that is my personal opinion.

So, what is your opinion when the Catholic Church is sued for similar behavior?

I don't agree that suing after-the-fact is better than preventing incidents or reducing further damage to children when an incident first occurs. Unfortunately, WT has not acted in other's interests and has made bad situations far worse than they needed to be. Often, the only penalty that maybe realistically imposed, is monetary.

While they can't change what has already occurred, WT can act to prevent further ongoing incidents but sadly, unwilling to do so. Their stubbornness and arrogance is to not only to their determent, but also damages future generations of children yet to be abused, although preventable.

Even as WT claim to JWs that they have no clergy, they then claim clergy privilege while in court.

WT cannot reasonably claim this privilege as matters discussed between an elder and congregant, are often reveled to other elders, the CO and possibly various persons at WT. This is in contrast to a parishioner privately discussing a matter with a priest as that discussion is to remain confidential between the two participants.

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

Incognito

The title of this thread is regarding child abuse.

A question asked in the OP is "Let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person. Why do you feel that Watchtower is responsible for that person's actions against the child?"

In response, the WT would not be responsible for that person's actions. However, once the matter is reveled to Elders, even if not mandated by human law, there is a moral obligation to ensure the matter is reported to authorities, so an investigation may occur and the appropriate actions are applied.

If the incident report stops with the elders or with WT, then they are each assuming liability for further abuses by that person, whether to the same child, other children within that and other congregations, or children in the world. By ensuring the allegation is reported, then it can be demonstrated that appropriate and reasonable actions were taken by the elders/congregation. If Child Protective Services or other appropriate agencies do not proceed to investigate, then the liability for non-action is on them.

No mention of young persons who are deemed as having reached the lawful age of consent (ie: 14 in Austria), was made until RO's 4th posting.

If a person has attained the lawful age of consent and has consented to a sexual relationship with someone older, that would then not be illegal or considered a child abuse situation. I am not aware of any child abuse actions against WT, where this is/was the situation.

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

Incognito

we as a people who are determined to protect children need to focus energy on changing the laws of the land in which we live.

For an organization which claims the highest morals and ethics, why do they oppose reporting child sexual abuse to worldly authorities? What would Jesus and Jehovah expect their chosen organization to do? Should they wait for worldly authorities to force them to report abuses or would they expect the organization to do everything possible to protect its members?

Even when required by law to report, do they actually do so? In Australia - 0 reported cases.

By not reporting even if not required, WT and elders are taking on a liability to which they are now often being made accountable.

Jehovah knows when a sparrow falls from the sky. Doesn't he hold humans in higher regard?

As Jehovah is 'love', I would assume he would expect his organization to be a positive example to the world on how to lovingly treat and protect others, especially those that cannot protect themselves.

WT warn congregants not to bring reproach on Jehovah's name yet it is WT behavior that is bringing the most reproach.

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

Incognito

But my question was if it is not against the law who are you going to report it too?

The issue is a law requiring 'clergy' to report when sexual abuse is reveled to them.

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

Incognito

As Orphan Crow clearly stated, the ongoing and biggest problem and source of liability is WT keeping these matters hidden and not involving proper authorities.

WT dictate to all JWs, to keep matters within the cong and not involve 'the world'. WT then instruct elders to contact WT legal depart for further instructions when matters of sexual abuse are reported to them.

Although WT claim that child sexual abuse is to be reported to authorities where required by law, the Australian RC has shown that doesn't actually occur as 0 of the approx 1600 cases involving over 1000 perpetrators was never reported. Australia does have a few mandatory reporting areas so it can be assumed that at least 1 incident occurred in one of those areas.

As each incident is not reported to authorities for proper investigation and as those reporting the matter to elders are often threatened against talking about it to others, the perpetrator continues to be unrestricted from repeating similar behavior with other children within or outside the congregation.

Congregants need to be encouraged to report matters directly to authorities but if they choose to first report to elders, elders need to then contact the authorities directly, not first reporting to WT legal dept.

For an organization which claims its members have the highest morals and respect for the law in a Christ like manner in representation of the one true God, most people would assume they would be a shining example of how these matters are to be correctly handled. Instead, WT has been shown as one of the poorest examples on the planet and they continually oppose being forced to fix the situation.

9

A better way to ask questions - Anybody remember "Amazing"?

by Bonnie_Clyde in

first of all, i wonder whatever happened to jim whitney (aka amazing).

when i first joined this forum, i remember being so impressed by the way he got his family out.

instead of knocking the organization head-on, he would ask questions that can't be answered during his family study, such as, "how would you answer someone if they said we were false prophets?

Incognito

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/280772/what-happened-member-amazing

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

Incognito

Welcome to the forum.

While I have reservations that the Society itself is evil and money-hungry, (the reason for this being that they do urge their followers to focus on the preaching work instead of wealth,

Yet, JWs with money will typically be treated more favorably than those without, regardless of how much preaching either do.

While the society urges followers not to focus on wealth, the society's focus and urgings of late, is for followers to donate more and more $ to the WT. Whatever donations received are never enough even as the sale of Brooklyn properties resulted in over $1 Billion for WT.

I would still be treated differently I know, but perhaps it wouldn't be quite so bad, though on the other hand if I fade then every time I do interact with my friends and family they would probably be trying to bring me back into the "truth."

Although we are not DF'd or DA'd but simply faded away, and although we say nothing negative, my family treat us as though we are DF'd anyway.

You are the best judge as to how your family would treat you. If they are the type that non attendance and no FS is equal to turning your back on Jehovah, then it maybe best to not worry about reinstatement just so you can walk away.

Many find that once they know the real truth about 'the truth', they can no longer tolerate attending meetings and pretending to be someone they are not, just to be favored by a few elders who will not accept them for who they are.

If you haven't been watching Leah Remini's show on Scientology, then I highly urge you to. The parallels to JWs & WT cannot be ignored.