Amazing1914

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Posts by Amazing1914

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  47

  MORE BRAIN-DEAD QUOTES FROM APRIL 15 WT

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i really think those in the writing dept.

  should be checked over for dementia or just plain insanity.

  here are some highlights from the april 15th wt magazine that i thought you'd enjoy:

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  Amazing1914

  Mary,

  Good quotes. I love the one about "falling in love" with our jobs. The Society use to worry about committing adultry with co-workers ... now they are worried about loving the job. Wow! It is all simply amazing.

  Jim W.
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  15

  Part A: The Missing 200-Years

  by Amazing1914 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  part a: the missing 200 years

  the watchtower society has written a lot since its inception in 1878.

  it has zeroed in on religious history and doctrine to make its case that such religion is false and thus concluded that the watchtower society must be true.

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  Amazing1914

  Narkissos,

  The Trinity is a doctrinal issue, so in that sense the Society really did not deal with the history of that period. You are quite correct about the early fathers you mention, such as Polycarp, Justin Martyr, etc. Again, though, while they discuss some of the characters from this period, they avoid the actaul history of the church between about 100 to 300.

  I see that my attempt to post the balance of my article failed two more times. I can't understand why that is happening. It looks fine when I paste it in, then when it posts, it fails to complete the entire text.

  Anyway, here is another attempt:

  Why do they do this? For all the in-depth study and millions of words and thousands of magazines and books, why do they leave this critical period out of any in-depth discussion? IN the last 66 years they have only focused on the Greek Orthodox in

  Well … maybe we need to know. So … for the next few postings on this topic, I will offer some history and facts which may suggest to you just why the Watchtower Society never manages to discuss the missing centuries to Jehovah’s Witnesses.

  Stay tuned for Part B: “The Father”

  Jim W.

  
  PS: It looks like some of it took this time, but the one paragraph cannot seem to go beyond the word 'in'. I wonder what is wrong.
• 
  15

  Part A: The Missing 200-Years

  by Amazing1914 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  part a: the missing 200 years

  the watchtower society has written a lot since its inception in 1878.

  it has zeroed in on religious history and doctrine to make its case that such religion is false and thus concluded that the watchtower society must be true.

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  Amazing1914

  Lets try it again,

  Why do they do this? For all the in-depth study and millions of words and thousands of magazines and books, why do they leave this critical period out of any in-depth discussion? IN the last 66 years they have only focused on the Greek Orthodox in
• 
  15

  Part A: The Missing 200-Years

  by Amazing1914 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  part a: the missing 200 years

  the watchtower society has written a lot since its inception in 1878.

  it has zeroed in on religious history and doctrine to make its case that such religion is false and thus concluded that the watchtower society must be true.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Amazing1914

  Hi Drew,

  I noticed that some of my other material is being cut off and missing middle sections. Since I don't see any moderator action, then I have no idea what is going on. Here is the second half of what got cut off.

  Why do they do this? For all the in-depth study and millions of words and thousands of magazines and books, why do they leave this critical period out of any in-depth discussion? IN the last 66 years they have only focused on the Greek Orthodox in Jim W.
• 
  15

  Part A: The Missing 200-Years

  by Amazing1914 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  part a: the missing 200 years

  the watchtower society has written a lot since its inception in 1878.

  it has zeroed in on religious history and doctrine to make its case that such religion is false and thus concluded that the watchtower society must be true.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Amazing1914

  Part A: THE MISSING 200 YEARS

  The Watchtower Society has written a lot since its inception in 1878. It has zeroed in on religious history and doctrine to make its case that such religion is false … and thus concluded that the Watchtower Society must be true.

  So, I spent the last 18-months studying the history of the early church from the first century to the 4 th century. The purpose is to get a handle on what early Christianity was like, and whether any group or belief system today has any resemblance. Were the Early Christians like the JWs of today, or do they more closely match another group or anything at all today?

  Here are some highlights to get the ball rolling. First, I noticed that the Society has mentioned the Catholic Church history and doctrines in all of its publications between 1950 and 1999 many times. And yet it only gives a brief reference to the history and doctrines of another group. Most of all, the Watchtower Society routinely avoids a certain historical time frame. Here are some statistics:

  ¨ Roman Catholic: 12,382 times, covering history, doctrine, conduct, etc. (5,027 in WT)

  ¨ Greek Orthodox: 1,467 times mostly covering the acts of Greek Priests to JWs (628 in WT)

  ¨ Eastern Orthodox: rarely mentioned as a specific group, and not accurately treated.

  Missing 200-Years: In all of its publications, the Watchtower Society never discusses the time frame from the end of the 1 st century to the end of the 3 rd century. It completely avoids this time frame, which is critical to understanding the development and establishment of the early church, its doctrines, and mode of operations.

  The closest and best time line I could find was the Chart of Dates found in Ch. 21 of the book, Babylon the Great has Fallen – God’s Kingdom Rules, (WTS, 1963) p.454-505 (discussion) and 682-690 (chart). The chart in particular covers dates from 4000 BCE to 1963 CE. It is an exhaustive list, except that it glosses over the time frame from the end of the 1 st century to the end of the 3 rd century. Likewise the discussion, as is the case in other Watchtower publications, carefully avoids these two centuries.

  Why do they do this? For all the in-depth study and millions of words and thousands of magazines and books, why do they leave this critical period out of any in-depth discussion? IN the last 66 years they have only focused on the Greek Orthodox in
• 
  4

  Part 3: Abandon Ship! - Are They Kidding?

  by Amazing1914 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is my final part in this short series.

  in april it will be 14 years since i abandoned the watchtower ship.

  reportedly, i am rumored to be disassociated as of july 1995. this ten year old watchtower "lead-in" article, therefore, is fitting to consider:

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  Amazing1914

  This is my final part in this short series.

  In April it will be 14 years since I abandoned the Watchtower ship. Reportedly, I am rumored to be Disassociated as of July 1995. This ten year old Watchtower "lead-in" article, therefore, is fitting to consider:

  Your Religion—A Ship That Should Never Be Abandoned? - The position of the clergy is, ‘Never abandon the ship. The church has been through serious crises before, but it is a ship that has weathered all of history’s tempests.’ Some say, ‘Why abandon her? What alternatives are there? Why not stay and help steer her into calmer waters?’

  [Actually, the churches rarely ever make such comments. Rather, they point to Jesus alone, and NOT their religious organization, as the means for salvation. Ahhh ... another Watchtower slight-of-hand remark.]

  This above suggested line of reasoning sounds all too familiar to former Jehovah's Witnesses. Yet, when the reasoning is applied to the Watchtower, the Society's leadership and article writers use almost the exact reasoning to keep JWs from abandoning the Watchtower ship that is often going in circles as it tacks in the wind of hot air.

  "... many people, belonging to all manner of religions, reason, ‘I know that my religion is wrong in many things, but I hope it will change. I don’t want to abandon it. I would like to have a part in helping it overcome its difficulties.’ This kind of reasoning may be dictated by sincere affection for one’s ancestral religion or even by the fear of “betraying” it"

  A case in point is that of Hans Küng, a well-known Catholic dissident theologian, who mused: “Should I abandon the boat during the storm, leaving those with whom I have sailed until now to face the wind, to bail the water, and perhaps to fight for survival?” He replied: “I will not give up my effectiveness within the church.” Another alternative would be “breaking with this church, because of its defection, for the love of higher values, and perhaps, to be more authentic Christians.”—Die Hoffnung bewahren.

  However, here is the KICKER:

  But can a person stay aboard the boat of his own church in the hope that God, in his mercy, will allow all religions an unlimited period of time to reform?

  Former JWs realize that time ran out long ago, and so we have elected to abandon the Watchtower ship, whether we take a lifeboat, swim, or walk the Judicial Committee plank ... so that we can find safe harbors, and peaceful shores. Jim W.
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  15

  Part 2: We Long to Hear These Words

  by Amazing1914 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when people are faced with being a victim of a crime or other wrongs, it changes them.

  it produces in them the need for accountability.

  such victims are told to "forgive" by letting go and that the forgiveness is for their own healing, even if the one causing harm has not shown sorrow or regret.

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  Amazing1914

  Hi Everyone,

  I appreciate all of the good comments. Some, like Lady Lee, felt that perhaps any apology is too little, too late ... I understand hers and other comments correctly.

  Lady Lee: Perhaps I spoke a little too softly. I do not mean to say that the Society can escape heavy accountability. They must be brought to justice, and pay heavy financial claims, and maybe some jail time if crimes are proven in some cases. However, we must admit that not everyone in the organization, from many at Bethel down to the local Elder are insincere or deliberately engaged in harmful acts. If new leadership takes over, and turns the old leadership over to the law (or plaintiffs in civil matters) and the new leadership changes policy and publically apoligizes as did the WCG, then I believe that would help our healing (not that we must have it, but it would help), especially knowing we played some part in that process from our ex-JW position.

  Honesty: Your insight on this issue then must be doubly clear, because the WCG was so much like the JWs in many ways. A good friend of mine (still a member of the WCG) used to ride to work with me in the 1970s. I learned much from him, and we often suported one another at work when it came to holidays and certain religious discussions. The reason I said that the incidence of similar literature is a coincidence is that the WCG current leadership stated it ... and given their current track record, I have no reason to doubt them. Also, I have asked various former Bethelites who had involvement with the Watchtower writing staff about this, and they likewise denied using any WCG literature as their source. If you are referring to both groups being insp[ired by the devil in the same way ... well that is something I cannot prove or disprove.

  TMS: I am surprised at your experience, and yet not surprised. I recall that the Society used green felt pens to check approved appointments, and a "red" felt line though those not approved. They always wrote a short letter to discuss the "rejected" appointment. As for the guy who cracked his voice exactly at the same juncture in his prayer ... it is possible that he felt strongly about this topic and when he reached that point, his emotions welled up ... . I tend to impute good motives and the benefit fo the doubt to people. Sometimes, I need to step back and realize that there are just plain bastards out there who are as wicked as the day is long. I am sure some of these latter types managed to work their way into the Watchtower organization ... or that the organization corrupted otherwise perfectly nice people.

  Jim W.
• 
  15

  Part 2: We Long to Hear These Words

  by Amazing1914 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when people are faced with being a victim of a crime or other wrongs, it changes them.

  it produces in them the need for accountability.

  such victims are told to "forgive" by letting go and that the forgiveness is for their own healing, even if the one causing harm has not shown sorrow or regret.

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  Amazing1914

  When people are faced with being a victim of a crime or other wrongs, it changes them. It produces in them the need for accountability. Such victims are told to "forgive" by letting go and that the forgiveness is for their own healing, even if the one causing harm has not shown sorrow or regret. Victims need and want accountability, not necessarily vengeance - but something more than letting the bad guy off the hook. There needs to be something to forgive ... because the harm and crimes of the Society continue unabated.

  Accountability has been denied to former Jehovah's Witnesses - and this is perhaps one of the reasons we stick together. We have no doubt about the errors and serious harm caused by the Watchtower Society toward its members. The most notable in recent years has been the child abuse issue. Nonetheless, we all have need for accountability from the Watchtower Society. This need is frustrated, because the Society and its leaders are known, unlike most criminals, and yet accountability is elusive. Some have expressed this frustration in a desire for vengeance. But in truth, we really need for the Watchtower Society to awaken to its past and present errors, to apologize and seek forgiveness.

  Here are the words from a parallel group:
  

  "Obviously, there are a lot of doctrinal errors in this list. Equally obviously, we would not describe them as errors unless we understood why they were in error. We have worked hard to inform our own members about where we went wrong --- and we say "we" with all honesty, for all the current leaders of the church once believed and taught these erroneous doctrines. We have all criticized other Christians as false, deceived, children of the devil. ... We have much to apologize for. We are profoundly sorry that we verbally persecuted Christians and created dissention and disunity in the body of Christ. We seek forgiveness and reconciliation." WCG

  Can you imagine the Watchtower Society leaders making such an apology? It is possible. I highly recommend that you read the full historical text of how the Worldwide Church of God made such a turn over a ten year period. Click here: http://www.wcg.org/lit/aboutus/history.htm It is a short read, and well worth your time.

  You will be surprised at the similarities to the Watchtower. The WCG even had a great falling away over the failure of their own 1975 prophecy. In fact, the similarities are so close, that it almost makes me wonder if God used their conversion to help us have some hope. [PS: Neither the Watchtower nor the WCG used each others literature to form their own articles ... it was all truly a strange coincidence ... especially when the Plain Truth and the Watchtower has similar articles in the same month.]

  If the Watchtower Society ever showed such contrite humility, I would cry my eyes out. No, I would not rejoin them. But, I would certainly resume fellowship with many friends who remain her members. It would be so completely refreshing and rewarding to see this turn of events for the Society rather than her collapse and further harm to her members.

  How would such an event make you feel? Maybe it is something we can pray for - for accountability with healing, for apology and forgiveness. - Jim W.
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  23

  Part 1: How Would You Answer This Issue?

  by Amazing1914 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  part 1:

  when we were faced with tough issues as jws, we used one or more of a few ways to find answers.

  we either searched the publications, consulted with an elder, or in some cases, wrote to the society.

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  Amazing1914

  Hybridous,

  As I noted in my post, Hindus have great respect for other beliefs, and see them equally as valid as thier own. He felt that I was a spiritual person. So, in making a decision, he wanted to get other perspectives. It was both an act of respect and humility as he was faced with a serious issue ... and he was also my friend.

  Jim W.
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  25

  What does the word "Apostate" mean to you now?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  how would you define the word apostate, now that you aren't in sync with the watchtower anymore?

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  Amazing1914

  Think and others,

  The modern English dictionaries cited, while good, are not consistent with the ancient Koine Greek word, apostasia. The reason is that the modern English usage has drifted from the ancient Koine Greek usage. Therefore, the meaning placed on it by Websters is for modern English only. Modren English also allows the word to take on a noun form, something not found in ancient Greek writings.

  As I posted above, apostasia is a simply Greek verb which means to stand away or apart from. In Greek, one could easily stand away from the grocery store. However, as used with respect to Jesus, it simply means those who have seperated from Christ. It has nothing to do with a title or label, or being a bad person.

  Jim W.