Posts by CeriseRose

213

WHAT IF WE DIDN'T POISON CHILDREN'S MINDS WITH FANTASY?

by Terry in

every baby born seems to have a giant helping of fairy stories, talking animals, outrageous exaggerations parading as "fact" and an endless stream of cartoons, science fiction and make-believe.

the laws of nature and physics are violated every few seconds in film and tv!

is it surprising that children are not only ignorant of how things really work-but, they don't have patience and an appetite for fact when they get to the schoolroom.

CeriseRose

I'm taking a poetry course that started off explaining the 'mothertongue' (the world of rhyme and sounds, nursery rhymes and the like) and the 'fathertongue' (the majority of the world grows up, goes to school and over the course of the school years slowly has the 'automatic mothertongue' worked out of their system as it were). The mothertongue is the language of our origin, the natural rhythms of our body (like the beating of our hearts), and like our intuitive response. The fathertongue is learned, is powerful in the way that it moves us beyond the primary and helps us to develop and communicate our own (and in some cases, others'...like me, right now) ideas and concepts.

Not being raised a JW, I was told about Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy and the like. At some point I knew that they were activities of my parents. Did I suffer psychological damage? Nope. Did I feel lied to by my parents? Nope (and not even, when studying with the WTS, they told me that my parents lied to me and OH how shocking and sad!).

The fantasy of those things along with the other things I was allowed to experience, as well as a decent education in the sciences and maths, gave me the ability to understand the difference.

I personally think fantasy holds a very important place in the development of a child and like all other things, needs to be in balance. Children learn soon enough the reality of the world. I think it's when there's a focus of one over the other, or the absence of one over the other, that creates the problem.

As for JWs and their fantasy, that has many more layers than just the intellectual. I mean, I had a fairly good background in science etc. at the high school level and if I had taken the time to actually study 'worldly' publications while studying with JWs and check it all out then I may not have bitten at the carrot. But what I know about myself...is that I was a lazy student (although I did research and bring things like the 586 BCE for the fall of Babylon to my study conductor, but believed her pat answer and didn't go further). I was also depressed, felt alone, had been suicidal. I wanted the friendship, I wanted the answers handed to me. My parents had divorced and I wanted an intact and loving family that would be the foundation I lost. Which need was higher at that point? Not the intellectual one...it was the emotional one. And let's face it, JWs in their witnessing target via emotions.

"Sure we may not have all the answers, but this way you're leaving it in God's hands and you do believe in God don't you? Don't you think God is correct in how he's teaching us?"

Circular reasoning, but to the heart that is longing for God, who is actually reasoning? I think most people who accept religion or a form of spirituality resign themselves to knowing that they will never be able to know all the answers around their God/dess and take things on faith.

So I guess my question would be where does the concept of faith fall in the realm of fantasy? Where is the line crossed?

10

The Stones Will Cry Out

by Poztate in

on another thread johnny crip said thisoff the top of my head .

in the golden age they used the verse about the stones crying out.

to prove that radio, with it's tubes made of different minerials etc.

CeriseRose

There are still a couple on Vancouver Island.

And in one community there's a JW couple who've been there forever and they have a specially painted rock out front so visitors to the tourist town know how to find them.

As for other places in BC, not too sure. However, the practice of graffiti on mountains and any other rock face is huge here so it wouldn't surprise me at all if at one time they put scriptures on them too.

23

What Would You Tell a Prospective New Poster About JWD??

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was talking to 2 someday to be ex jws about the forum and they want to join.

i did let them know that not everyone is as sweet as they are.

i mentioned that most here are very nice and that a few have issues.

CeriseRose

I would tell them that it's like many other online forums with a variety of posters, posting styles, mentalities, senses of humor. I would tell them to read lots before posting much, to get a feel for the board dynamic and to make sure it's a comfy fit for them (not all boards are).

I would also tell them that they should just be as much of themselves as they feel comfortable being. And to sit back and enjoy it!

Oh, and to watch out for Minimus.

15

Most Delusional Moment as a Jehovah's Witness

by Terry in

i remember standing there in the evening light of a setting texas sun in the middle of a federal prison with a chilled wind whipping up dust devils around me.

i was twenty years old and so skinny you didn't need an x-ray to see through me.

seagoville was a prison filled with lost souls, men with dumpsters for hearts and foul mouths that spat the contents of a poisoned mind into your ears.

CeriseRose

{{{{{{{BALSAM}}}}}}}

I've known the pain of losing my parents...it's very like what you describe. I've always thought, however, that losing a child would be a thousand times worse. It's unnatural and heartbreaking. Thank you for sharing your story freely, and for the love you show others in doing your part to warn them of the danger of the WTS's unscriptural doctrines.

229

And upon her forehead was written a name, a mystery:

by myelaine in

rev.

verse 18 .

and the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.

CeriseRose

I believe what I am saying, I am not being false. I am quoting scripture, I am not impersonating or representing anyone false.

As my Daddy, rest his soul, would say "Some people talk just for the wonder of hearing their own voice."

In this instance it would be writing just to see their own words. Same principle.

From what I've observed, you're dealing with someone who is very one way in her communications, as well as selective in what she chooses to address. Or possibly two way, but that would only be with the voice(s) in her head. I don't know that for sure though.

This thread kind of reminds me of a secretary I used to work with...her boss would tell her to do something, she would phone up someone connected and tell them. When the other party asked for more info or clarification, her response was consistent: "I don't know anything more than what I was told to pass along. Anything else you'd have to ask him directly."

26

Satan was at my front door when I got home today...

by Confucious in

jw
friends

but my girlfriend who was never a dub, bought a pumpkin and set it out on the front door.

at first, i was like, "omg.

it's a pumpkin and we're almost in october!!!

CeriseRose

While I'm not Estee, I am Canadian and can unequivocally tell you she was being sarcastic (and probably to the JWs not you from the read of it).

We have Hallowe'en here too. Pumpkins, goblins, candy, and all the 'trimmings.' :)

15

Most Delusional Moment as a Jehovah's Witness

by Terry in

i remember standing there in the evening light of a setting texas sun in the middle of a federal prison with a chilled wind whipping up dust devils around me.

i was twenty years old and so skinny you didn't need an x-ray to see through me.

seagoville was a prison filled with lost souls, men with dumpsters for hearts and foul mouths that spat the contents of a poisoned mind into your ears.

CeriseRose

{{{{{Terry}}}} Between this post and your other one, you really need that. Or maybe I just needed to give it to you. :)

Most delusional moment...hmmm. Hard to pinpoint exactly. Probably a similar type of cause-effect as yours (not the same subject though).

It was 1998 and I'd been engaged for 3 years to a brother from South America who'd been visiting Canada on a holiday visa. I had listened to the council of the WT in 'marrying only in the Lord' and to 'not have a long engagement' (so we'd dated/got engaged SUPER quick and then he went home and we started the immigration process for him to move). After waiting all that time, chips in the relationship had become chasms, and a staggering number of things were setting off all my alarm bells and red flags (things like he never mentioned people at the KH, never mentioned FS, and his parents divorced and his Mom disassociated and he was still spending time with her and supporting her...however we had very limited contact on the phone and letters were slow going both ways so I didn't have the clearest picture).

I was sitting at our Special Day Assembly, which, instead of being in the usual April, was on May 10th. We had *finally* gotten the okay from immigration, he'd been approved and his plane ticket bought, wedding date set for June 8th. In order to be married in the KH, we had to both be in good standing...so the elder body in his hall sent a letter to my elder body. It was in Spanish and we had a Spanish elder in our hall who was translating it. I had handed off the letter over a week beforehand, and wanted to follow up.

I remember one talk in the afternoon program about not yoking ourselves with unbelievers. The speaker made application of that in a way I'd never heard before...about dating/marrying someone spiritually weaker than yourself and the inherent dangers of it. With this "council from Jehovah" fresh in mind, at the end of the session I sought out the secretary of our cong. to find out how the translation had gone. He looked leery and told me the P.O. would be talking to me about it, and then he walked away.

Now I'm no idiot; obviously something was wrong with the news in the letter. I got home, pretty much a wreck, and then called my bookstudy condutor, who conferred with the P.O. and then delivered the news that my fiance was 'inactive.' I was completely devastated, but "sought refuge in Jehovah" and within 4 days broke up with him, cancelled the immigration and the plane ticket, and had "kept my integrity to Jehovah." Elders commended me, people I barely knew shouted it from the rooftops, the wonderful stand I'd made for Jehovah.

Now in reality, our relationship had been a mere infatuation, pushed beyond what it should have been by WT conventions. 98% of the red flags would have pushed me into that decision at some point (thank goodness it was before marriage itself!). But I believed that Jehovah had directed me to make the timely steps I did.

5 months later started my Mom's terminal illness and death, followed by my Dad's. For 2 years during that I was alone, grieving, in desperate need of help, succor, comfort and all those other things God is supposed to give you. For 3 years after that I was alone, grieving, and begging for help, compassion, and empathy.

"MAYBE they'll be resurrected."

This was what the God of the WT offered me in solace. He gave me elders who, despite repeated pleadings with tears and crying out in pain, ignored my request for alternatives. It was MY fault I couldn't get to meetings, MY fault I was spiritually weak. MY fault I was so grief-stricken (and I never understood that term before this) that I couldn't function on any normal human level, much less the pace at which a "good" JW is expected to operate. I was supposed to turn the other cheek when cong. members said rude and hurtful things, denegrating my parents' deaths as less than worthy of acknowledgment simply because they were 'worldly.'

I suffered 8 years of constant stress from the immigration waiting, the illnesses, the deaths, the subsequent lack of empathy and compassion. I suffered a nervous breakdown that kept me off work, unable to go buy a litre of milk without help. I did 98% of all my dealing completely alone, without any connection to the congregation. And it hit me one day that I *was* completely alone through that. I may have heard something at the Assembly that day that made me feel like God was directing me, but I already knew what I needed to do...I just needed "permission." God wasn't there when I was begging him to make my Mom better. He wasn't there when I was asking him not to let my Dad be terminally ill a month after Mom died. God ignored my cries as a JW in good standing, even when I'd stood up for him and kept my integrity through numerous trials. God doesn't try us with evil things...so did these events come along from Satan one after the other...my parents being sick that soon after grieving the crushing humiliation of a very public breakup, the loss of my childhood dream of finally having children and a family of my own, the constant stress leading to a nervous breakdown...were those just tests of my endurance? Of my faith? How sickening. How cruel. God did NOTHING to step in.

It wasn't long from that epiphany that I left. There were other markers along the way, like watching 'worldly' people rally around a grieving person and the complete difference in how these people 'without real love' and who weren't 'plugged in to the real god' showed such unconditional and beautiful love and compassion. That was reality, and now that I'm out of the fantasy, I can live it, with all it's heartache and warts, and sunshine and rainbows.

4

Judge okays Jurors getting high or drunk

by Big Tex in

good news.

if you get called for jury duty, bring a bottle of shiraz or smoke out.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/law/09/15/drunk.jurors.reut/index.html

CeriseRose

This is the statement that gets me:

"However severe their effect and improper their use, drugs or alcohol voluntarily ingested by a juror seem no more an 'outside influence' than a virus, poorly prepared food, or lack of sleep," the Supreme Court said in its decision.

It seems to me that they are trying to boil it down to a standardized definition of 'impairment.' A key word for me in this is 'voluntary'. How many people voluntarily get sick, eat bad food, or choose to not sleep (okay, us computer geeks aside)? I would say most of that is involuntary.

So if I go to work sick or with a stomach ache, or sleepy it will be tolerated just the same as if I come to work loaded? Not bloody likely...

I wonder what the supreme court justice(s) had voluntarily ingested, and how severely they were being effected (affected?) by it when they ruled that way?!?

Edited cuz I wrote my ironical statement the wrong way.

229

And upon her forehead was written a name, a mystery:

by myelaine in

rev.

verse 18 .

and the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.

CeriseRose

LT: bussed = kissed. You posted a kissy faced icon in your response to me.

Now I thought that term was from the UK...now I have to go figure out where it's from.

Edited: from www.dictionary.com

buss (btr. & intr.v. bussed, buss·ing, buss·es

To kiss.

n.

A kiss.

[Possibly blend of obsolete bass (akin to French baiser ), obsolete cuss (akin to Middle English kissen , to kiss. See kiss) or from Scottish Gaelic bus , lips, mouth. See puss 2 .]

bussed

Buss \Buss\ (b[u^]s), v. t. [imp. & p. p. Bussed (b[u^]st); p. pr. & vb. n. Bussing.] To kiss; esp. to kiss with a smack, or rudely. ``Nor bussed the milking maid.'' --Tennyson.

Kissing and bussing differ both in this, We buss our wantons, but our wives we kiss. --Herrick.

229

And upon her forehead was written a name, a mystery:

by myelaine in

rev.

verse 18 .

and the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.

CeriseRose

*gasp* I've been bussed by a Scot!

I guess that makes me un-invisible. *grin*

*hugs across the pond*