Posts by Neo
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13New GB members WT March 15th p 26
by stillajwexelder innew gb members wt march 15th p 26 .
i am sure you all know but it was finally published in this magazine on page 26 - geoffrey w. jackson and anthony morris 111 are the new gb members and it gives biographical details.
then all current gb members ar ealso listed.
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Quotes update: Free to publicly comment on the action
by Quotes infor the newbies, this post is a follow up on my situation regarding the watch tower's law suit against my due to my watch tower quotes web site.
for the background on the story so far, see these threads:
quotes website receives "cease & desist"
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Neo
Thank you so much for your hard work, Quotes!
For those who still haven't seen it, the following is an article on The Guardian site about Quotes' case, published Monday January 16th. It didn't get the publicity it deserved.
Witnesses protection programme
Stephen Bates reports on the religious leaders who objected to a website that spread their church's teachings
Stephen Bates, religious affairs correspondent
Monday January 16, 2006Most Christian organisations are only too pleased to spread the Good Word, but the Jehovah's Witnesses have taken an altogether different approach by forcing a Canadian member to close down a website highlighting their beliefs.
This may have something to do with the weirdness of some of the church's views, such as the belief that vaccinations are a cruel hoax by Satan, that organ transplants are the equivalent of cannibalism, that blood transfusions are unbiblical, that God himself edits its magazine, that the Great Pyramid of Giza was "an outline of the plan of God" and that the world would end in 1914. And 1915. And 1918. And 1920. And 1925. And 1940. And 1975. Having learned its lesson, it now believes officially that the end is merely imminent.
The offending website, quotes.watchtower.ca, was launched by a Toronto mechanical engineer, Peter Mosier, a long-standing, though now somewhat disillusioned, member of the 13.8 million-strong worldwide faith, which has 130,000 followers in Britain. The site consisted entirely of lengthy quotations from official Witnesses publications pointing out some of the church's anomalies and quiet changes of position over the last 130 years, many of which have never been formally communicated to members of the church in good standing.
Presumably tongue-in-cheek, the site quotes instructions issued to followers in the Watchtower, the church's magazine, in 1942 that Jehovah has entrusted followers "with the privilege and obligation of telling His message".The magazine added: "Those who believe that God uses the Watchtower as a means of communicating to His people should truly study [it] with thankfulness of heart and ... give neither honour nor credit to any man."
The website adds solemnly: "If you are looking for criticism, critique or editorial commentary, you have come to the wrong place."
Ironically, for a group best-known to the outside world for its members' enthusiastic attempts at doorstep proselytisation, the Witnesses' elders suffered a massive sense of humour failure when confronted with the site. They threatened to sue Mr Mosier for 100,000 Canadian dollars unless he closed his website down, with punitive damages for his impertinence in spreading their views where they might be seen by non-believers.
The Witnesses were also sore that Mr Mosier had successfully annexed a domain name that they had not already claimed for themselves, based on the title of their magazine and the name of the office block in Brooklyn, New York where they have their worldwide headquarters.
They claimed Mr Mosier had unlawfully misappropriated and disclosed confidential information and damaged their copyright. They stated: "The defendant's main purpose is not fair use but rather to try to embarrass the plaintiffs by quoting selectively from some of the religious works in a manner that misleads internet users as to the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses in Canada ... [and is] likely to cause confusion."
Members of the church keep themselves separate from the world, do not vote or take part in civic life and have traditionally been strictly controlled by their elders. Those who break their code of conduct - such as by accepting a blood transfusion to save their life or that of a child in their family - may find themselves ostracised from their relatives and communities.
A recent legal opinion in the US alleges that the Watchtower has wilfully misled followers over the reality of blood transfusions, which could lay it open to massive claims for damages from members who believe their relatives have died in vain because they thought they were following the word of God in rejecting transfusions.
Members of the public answering the door to witnesses might be surprised to learn the confidential information that non-believers are regarded as doomed to Old Testament punishment on the Last Day, their eyes plucked out and their bones ground to dust.
In the past the Watchtower has told local elders that a member accused of child abuse should only be reported to the police in the unlikely event of there being two independent witnesses to the abuse, otherwise the victim can be instructed to "wait on Jehovah" to sort things out.
In an attempt to keep control of members' thoughts and prevent them falling into sin through happening on pornographic sites, the Watchtower leaders have instructed that, if members view the internet, they should only look at authorised Witnesses websites - hence the consternation that they might accidentally stumble on Mr Mosier's effort.
Mr Mosier, 37, who was brought up as a Witness, baptised into the faith at 17 and was a member in good standing for 10 years after that, said: "I decided to set up the website after learning things that I had never heard before. There were things that, had I known them when I was baptised, I would not have joined. The Watchtower calls itself God's Channel but it has a way of changing its mind and not telling anyone that things have changed."
"My website has clear quotes that enable people to study their religion and learn more about it, but the Watchtower wants people to learn about it only on their own terms. My site has been getting 10,000 visitors a month, so you could say I have been more successful in informing people about Jehovah's Witnesses than I ever was when I went round knocking on people's doors."
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1687735,00.html)
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IT HAS BEGUN "BIG" NEWS ON AP NEWS WIRE
by DannyHaszard inreligion today
monterey county herald, ca - 2 minutes ago .
new york - jehovah's witnesses are renowned for teaching that jesus is not god and that the world as we know it will soon end.
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Neo
WooHoo!!
It's an awesome article!!
I only have a problem with this paragraph:
Aside from the new directive, a footnote in the Witnesses' standard brochure, ''How Can Blood Save Your Life?,'' mentions the 2000 article on fractions -- but then omits its contents.
They messed up a little on this. The brochure is older than the 2000 WT article. The reporter was trying to say another thing.
Neo
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"BIG NEWS" made Forbes magazine
by DevonMcBride inhttp://www.forbes.com/business/businesstech/feeds/ap/2006/01/26/ap2479474.html .
associated press .
religion today .
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Neo
Check also the thread:
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WTS Letter to Congregations re. HLC
by doinmypart in.
the christian congregation of jw sent a letter to all congregations regarding hospital liaison committees.
this letter will be read the week of january 30, 2006. i can email a pdf of the letter to someone willing to post it here.
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Neo
bttt
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27
Guardian site
by Peppermint inhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1687735,00.html
edited to make link clickable ~ scully
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Neo
Kudos to The Guardian and many thanks to Stephen Bates! It does an excellent job on educating the public about this dangerous religion. Keep up the good work!
I think it's a great article but there are a few problems with it, like yaddayadda points out. The most obvious is "authorised Witnesses websites", which is not an accurate statement because it induces the reader to think that there is a formal list of WT permitted websites for the Witnesses. OTOH, if applied more loosely, that term is correct, since JWs cannot visit sites that contain material in disagreement with WT doctrine at all.
It is a hard choice to choose which WT problems to mention in a short article. One of the difficulties to expound on WT charlatanism is the overwhelming amount of embarassing facts that can be listed. A few were mentioned but it could be said that some of the listed doctrines have been abandoned. Some Witnesses will discard the article only because of that.The example of quotes from the site was weak too. Why didn't Bates put up something a little more dramatic, like a quote about selling homes and possession to go preaching before 1975 or something similar, or a quote about the 1914 generation not ending.
I really wished Bates had quickly mentioned stuff like the 1969 Awake article that told young Witnesses that they "will never grow old" in this system of things or the WT admission that many young people have died because of the blood issue. But I'm happy that he made reference to the issues of blood, DF and child abuse.
About the 13,8 million figure: I don't have a problem with it. If he is referring to the memorial attendance, it's a little innacurate, because in the last two memorials attendance was over 16 million. But if a Witness casts doubt on the reporter's credibility because of the 13,8 figure (instead of 6,4 million), it should be mentioned that WT leadership also uses memorial attendance the same way. For example, in a letter to the Singaporean government about Witness persecution in that country, Milton Henschel, WT president back then, used memorial attendance figures to make his point:
*** w95 10/1 p. 30 Singapore Tramples on Freedom of Worship ***
March 21, 1995
Goh Chok Tong
Prime Minister
Istana Annexe
Singapore 0923
Republic of Singapore
Lee Kuan Yew
Senior Minister
Prime Minister’s Office
460 Alexandra Road
37-00 PSA Bldg
Singapore 0511
Republic of Singapore
Dear Sirs:
A recent Reuters dispatch from Singapore dated February 25, 1995, was most disturbing. It reported that Bible study meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses had been broken up by police and 69 people were arrested. This report has focused world attention on the situation of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Singapore, where their activities and literature have been banned for over 20 years.
It is difficult to understand why a religious organization which functions openly with full protection of the law in more than 200 countries should be banned in Singapore, a country which espouses the principles of democracy. It is all the more disturbing in view of Singapore’s constitutional guarantee of freedom of worship for its citizens.
Jehovah’s Witnesses have never posed any threat to national security anywhere. Indeed, throughout the world they have the reputation of being peaceable, hardworking, morally upright, and law abiding—qualities which I am sure you promote in your country.
It is true that in their strict adherence to Bible standards for Christians, the position of Jehovah’s Witnesses has sometimes been misunderstood or misrepresented. But, was that not true of the founder of Christianity who also was misrepresented as being against “Caesar,” the government of his day? Jehovah’s Witnesses simply follow the example of Jesus and the early Christians. They respect the government where they live, pay their taxes, and promote good morals. They are conscientious and upright citizens. Never have Jehovah’s Witnesses taken part in any kind of subversive activity in any country and I can assure you that their presence in Singapore poses no threat to your country’s national interests.
Due to recent media reports, the repressive measures taken against Jehovah’s Witnesses in Singapore by your government are now common knowledge. It is especially a matter of concern to their 12 million associates around the world. I ask you to use your good office to remedy the situation and afford Jehovah’s Witnesses in your country the freedom of worship and conscience guaranteed by the Constitution.
I believe a frank discussion with representatives of Jehovah’s Witnesses would help dispel any misunderstandings about our organization and activity and would reassure you that the government of Singapore has nothing to fear from Jehovah’s Witnesses. I would be happy to arrange for such a meeting.
I look forward to your reply.
Yours respectfully,
Milton G. Henschel
President
In 2004, Memorial attendance was 12,288,917, so WT does not see a problem in using those figures when referring to the organization. Bates said that the Watchtower is a "13.8 million-strong worldwide faith". In light of the WT's own use of memorial figures, Witnesses cannot complain of anything.
It would be good if Bates told us how he found that number, however. An aside: the number of people directly affected by the WT religion is far greater than 6,4 million. Millions of people who don't go door to door but sympathize with the religion - like relatives, friends, colleagues and doctors - suffer from the extremist JW practices. The 6 million figure applies only to those who report each month. But hundreds of thousands of children, for example, are raised in the cult risking their lives because of the blood issue. And they don't show up in the worldwide report of this "Jonestown by installments" religion.
Neo
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C'mon Watchtower: How long will the Blood brochure stay online?
by Neo inhi wt monitors!
i think you've noticed you'll be experiencing some ugly times in the near future.
soooo, with about 40 pages of exposure of your lies and misrepresentations in a law journal read by experts all over the globe, with an internet-based dissemination work force that will spread the news to tens of thousands of other people, how long will you leave the how can blood save your life brochure on watchtower.org?.
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Neo
stevie2, you probably have not read my last post. Irrespective of the validity of the "tort of misrepresentation" thesis, the news will be out there and will get momentum. What will the WT do?
BTW, I'm with you in that I think they won't take the blood stuff off anytime soon. It's damage control. But leaving it there will look uglier and uglier as people easily check their lies and distortions.
Neo
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Read "How Can Blood Save Your Life?"
by AndersonsInfo inread the watchtower society's blood brochure here:.
http://www.watchtower.org/library/hb/article_00.htm.
make a copy before wt removes it from their site.. barbara
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Neo
Barbara,
A couple hours after the release of your news, I started a thread pointing just that. It's been documented: the Blood brochure was online by the time the news was released, as it has been for years now. If they dare to take it off, it will be a clear admission of guilt.
Here's the link: C'mon Watchtower: How long will the Blood brochure stay online?
They have a dilemma on their hands now.
Neo
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C'mon Watchtower: How long will the Blood brochure stay online?
by Neo inhi wt monitors!
i think you've noticed you'll be experiencing some ugly times in the near future.
soooo, with about 40 pages of exposure of your lies and misrepresentations in a law journal read by experts all over the globe, with an internet-based dissemination work force that will spread the news to tens of thousands of other people, how long will you leave the how can blood save your life brochure on watchtower.org?.
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Neo
MidwichCuckoo,
I hope you're not suggesting a they may withdraw the Blood Brochure in a ''Quick-let's-resign-as-an-NGO-now-we've-been-rumbled'' fashion? Lol
It's even worse. We're talking about their own site! The WT is being caught red-handed and there'll be a lot of traffic at watchtower.org in the coming weeks because, in this Information Age, countless people interested in the recent blood exposé will run to the online brochure to see with their own eyes the utter deception of the medical issue found therein. The publication has been around for over a decade, but we will witness a coordinated effort to expose its lies. We're having a chance we didn't have before. A brochure that was once seen as queer and unortodhox by the specialized audience will now be read in a different perspective. The WT will start to get ashamed of keeping it online. It's a catch-22 situation.
Gill,
All they have to do is point to a scripture that they, by religious belief, says that they must 'abstain from blood' and there it is...job done. It's religious belief and they'll put it as personal choice...you have blood and you're not a JW, you don't have blood and you are.
The simplest arguments are the best.
They are now wishing they had done that. See, the pamphlet doesn't do so. They don't limit their discussion to the religious aspect; they go way beyond that by doctoring the whole blood issue, exaggerating the dangers of transfusion and minimizing the risks of not accepting one.
Oroborus21,
you might want to read my post in the other thread.
Legal Misrepresentation is not the same as the common dictionary definition. Legal misrepresentation requires that the bad actor KNOWINGLY and DELIBERATELY lied with RECKLESSNESS.
I'm not a lawyer and I'll need some time to digest your comments. It's good to see someone playing the Devil's advocate, we need that. And we also need to read the opinions of some of your colleagues. But the reason I started this thread was not for the legal aspect. I'm talking about the publicity issue. Notwithstanding the possible legal ramifications of the theory advanced by LW's essay, it will no doubt generate renewed interest in the whole blood fraud. It depends on us to make the news resonate around the world and get people to look into this. If we do our homework, the WT will become increasingly uncomfortable with keeping the blood brochure online and they'll take some heat. It won't go unnoticed.
Neo
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Journal of Church and State: WT NO-BLOOD EXPOSE'
by AndersonsInfo in(baylor university, waco, tx) an essay entitled, "jehovah's witnesses, blood transfusions, and the tort of misrepresentation," found in the autumn issue of baylor universitys prestigious journal of church and state, published december 13, 2005, exposes the vulnerability of jehovahs witnesses religious organization to massive claims for compensation because of the religions misrepresentation of the medical risks of blood transfusions.
this milestone essay critically examines one of the religions main publications for teaching their children and new recruits about their blood beliefs, how can blood save your life?
the peer-reviewed essay details many misrepresentations of medical facts, which the religion partly relies on to support its blood prohibition, thus denying its members from making fully informed medical decisions.
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Neo
Barbara wrote in the Big News thread:
There are the hordes of experts who are part of the group who gave their blessing to the Big News who never before had any dealings with JWs or XJWs.
Now we know they are law experts. Although the article is from a single person, more than a few have reviewed and "gave their blessing" to it. It's solid. Now the WT will think a lot more before misrepresenting facts.
And many thanks to this woman:
Kerry Louderback-Wood. She is the writer of the article. Thank you for standing up for what's right and for doing the hard work! I'm sure we'll hear a lot from you.
Neo
