Posts by arachnia

I am a "cultural" JW. You've heard of the distinction between an Orthodox Jew and a Cultural Jew? I look to the Watchtower because they are my "tribe".(3rd Generation JW going back to IBSA)
Scandal is a modern past time. I feel bad that the Catholic Church has to suffer from this kind of accusation. Religion serves a strong function in reminding people that they are MORE than animals. But the MORE part is simply a thin veneer over our evolutionary history. There is a tendency of JW's to blame war on religion. This only happens when nationalism grabs religion for its own aims.
When you discredit a religion you are doing untold damage to the moral compass of its members. In the case of child molestation this doesn't make people safer. It exposes them to the poison of relativism. It is unfortunate that Bowen's attack on JW's is a result of his JW training - which tends to be anti-philosophical. He lacks a broad context.

By your comments regarding the function of religion, and criticism of the JW training as anti-philosophical, may I infer that you are an advocate of philosophy? I ask this because I agree entirely that the Watchtower is anti-philosophical, particularly anti-Logic. If you subscribe to Logic and philosophy, I cannot see how you can truthfully reconcile that with Watchtower teachings. If you do subscribe to logic and philosophy, how do you reconcile your trust in the Watchtower as a guiding post in your life, if their thinking runs counter to your own? "You cannot slave for two masters."

The press is an all too willing player in this. The result is that children will NOT be measurably safer.

Why will children not be measurably safer if exposure of the policy that has allowed them to be placed in jeapordy is exposed and thus, we hope, forcibly changed to insure their safety. Is your argument that this is not possible because the Watchtower will refuse to change or will not implement true changes, and will only pay lip service to protecting children in order to get the public off their backs? If that is not true, what is your argument here?

Children need to be educated to the dangers of molestation just as they are to the dangers of drugs. Some parents feel it robs kids of their youth if you educate them in the MO of sexual predators. Kids need to be taught that NO one ought to touch them in certain places. They need to be taught that they shouldn't look at dirty pictures etc.

I wholeheartedly agree that children must be educated about predators so that they can be avoided. However, I suspect most JW children ARE warned of these dangers by their parents and may also have been warned of this by programs at their school. However, they have been raised to believe that because JW's are "god's chosen people" and therefore can all be trusted - a "brotherhood of love and unity." Gaining a child's trust is a key element in the molestation process. Children generally feel safe in their little bubble of existance within the JW's because they have been told it's a safe place by those whom they love and trust, their parents, and the other JW's that they consider to be like family. Those that manipulate that trust in order to molest them are the problem.

You will never get rid of the predators.

If the JW elders are required to report pedophiles to the "worldly" authorities, there is indeed a very strong chance that the predators will spend time in jail. This protects children.

Further, (if and) when the predator gets out of jail and wants to return to the congregation, they should be marked as a pedophile so that parents can be aware of this person and avoid allowing their children around them. No, it's not an easy mark to carry. But they chose it when they decided to molest a child. Choice = Consequence. Besides, they are in all likelihood going to end up on the public sex offender list in their state, so letting other church members know that this person has the very serious and probable tendency to abuse again should be a moral imperative for the church leadership.

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

88

Bill Bowens Trail of Naivete

by Psychdigg in

jw
friends

i did a search on bill bowens postings in this forum.

very interesting.

revealing!.

arachnia

Psychdigg, your comments were directed to Simon, but as this is a public board and this discussion is as well:

The Catholic Church fell under scrutiny because of the victims and their advocates continuing to speak up in spite of being told that they had no credibility. Over time, people listen. Numbers come out. Lawsuits are won. It's all over the news. Regardless of whether records are public or private, in many states in the US it is now law that even in confidential relationships such as therapists, doctors, or clergy, if any evidence of child molestation has occured, that information cannot be kept private, it must be divulged to public officials so that it can be examined in light of the law.

How would you qualify the evidence being brought forth by the victims and their advocates in terms of anecdotal versus statistical? Whose authority would you accept in determining the statistics? Regardless of these labels, the fact remains - CHILDREN HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY MOLESTED. This has happened in the context of religion, and many of the perpetrators have not been held accountable, and continue to operate in an environment free from restraint, so that they certainly have the capability to abuse again.

As to the issue of religions being directed by god or not, it's an irrelevant argument from my standpoint. Another red herring. The issue here is child molestation, not the divorce rate of JW's. It is also not about the rate of drug use in the US, prostitution, or even the blood transfusion issue. It is about child molestation, and a religion permitting it to occur.

Finally, as for your contention that the parents are responsibile for what has happened to their children, your attempt to blame-shift away from the WT really tells me that you are working for their defense here. That's the typical response whenever the WT gets taken to task for something - shift the blame to individuals within the organization, whether that's local elders, congregations, or in this case, the parents. How dare you insinuate that the parents are to blame. The only thing they are to blame for is trying to act faithfully within the context of the brainwashing they've undergone in the name of religion. They are told that nothing as horrible as that could happen amongst "god's chosen people." They are taught to deny any sense of scrutiny they might have towards the organization because they are "the faithful and discreet slave" that god uses to "dispense spiritual food at the proper time." If you are a WT loyalist, deep down you *know* this. Fortunately, some parents woke up to see what was happening, and left so that their children will be protected.

By your argument, the best thing that parents can do to protect their children is to leave the JW religion to make them safe from pedophiles who will continue to persist. I must say, I agree with that, but I'm not sure that's the conclusion you are hoping people reach.

Again, what's your angle? What is driving you here to make the arguments that you have? You have obviously had at the very least association with the JW's, and its more likely that you are a long-time JW yourself due to the inferences you have made ("Half of Jehovah's Witness marriages end up in divorce (from my experience of 70 witness weddings in the last 40 years that I have attended"; "I
personally would like to see a drama at assemblies about this
issue." and the like) and the loyalty you have displayed towards the WT by attempting to silence its critics. What's your motivation?

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

88

Bill Bowens Trail of Naivete

by Psychdigg in

jw
friends

i did a search on bill bowens postings in this forum.

very interesting.

revealing!.

arachnia

Arachnia:
1. Since Bill Bowen behaves hypocritically THEREFORE he is a hypocrite. (That's my argument)

If that is indeed your argument, then support it without resorting to logical fallacies. You have failed to impress upon me how he is acting hypocritically. You have, however, used personal attacks and red herrings, which invalidate anything you have to say. Your approach seems to indicate that you have an interest in defending the WT Society. What is your interest in this matter? What's your angle? Why are you here attacking Bill's character and motivation?

2. Jehovah's Witnesses are a hot bed of child molestation. (Bills Argument)

Do you contend that a problem does not exist?

Bill Bowen makes inuendos & spins scenarios of the percentage of JW's that are molesters. He has no absolute numbers. Are some who claim to be JW's molesters?. Yes. Is it as bad as Bill Bowen claims? Without hard evidence NO!!.

Most assuredly, hard numbers would be helpful. But, like the situation with the Catholic church for so many years, those numbers are very difficult to ascertain because the church leaders are not willing to divulge them for fear of repercussions. However, Bill saw quite enough in terms of cases of pedophilia to motivate him to speak up about the issue, which gave others the courage to do so, and over time, more will continue to stand up. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The same sort of things were said for YEARS about the Catholic Church. There were naysayers such as yourself who said that either the victims were lying, suffering from false memories, or that they were simply isolated cases. It wasn't until the media got involved and spread the news, and lawsuits started being won by victims that the church started admitting numbers. You can see what has happened now.

I will not attempt to argue the numbers. However, I do know that *too many* children have suffered specifically because the WT Policy, and without people like those who have had the courage to protest the policy (Bill being amoungst that number, but not the only one) this issue would never come to light and children will continue to suffer. Gotthold Ephraim Lessing once said, "A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes." Choosing to remove the Watchtower veil of fear they have worn for so long has caused these good folks to see what is going on, not just in their own congregation, but organization wide, and they have the bravery to stand up and do something about it.

The controversial stance taken by these dissenting members is drawing focus and scrutiny on the WT organization, which attempts to defend itself by firing salvos in the way of personal attacks and threats of excommunication at anyone who would challenge their modus operandi.

"Being right too soon is socially unacceptable." --Robert Heinlein

The only reason you accept such false claims is because you are blinded by your hatred of the Watchtower organization.

Ah, so now they are "false claims" are they? There is no such thing as pedophilia taking place in the Land of Oz is there? Nice try to sneak that in. Unfortunately, all too many of us know it is simply not true.

And as far as my personal feelings towards the Watchtower, any negativity I hold against that organization is a direct result of their actions, their policies, and the harm they have inflicted on their members for over a century. If you are a Watchtower representative, you have the ability to know of what I speak, but have chosen to ignore it. If you are simply someone who wandered in here without any knowledge of the Watchtower, then you have absolutely no right to preach to anyone here about our "hatred" of the Watchtower.

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

88

Bill Bowens Trail of Naivete

by Psychdigg in

jw
friends

i did a search on bill bowens postings in this forum.

very interesting.

revealing!.

arachnia

Hey Psychodigg and Hilda, how's the weather in New York? Are you upstate or looking out at the Manhattan skyline? So, things must be pretty tense at HQ, huh? I mean, what else could merit this sort of attack on one of the nerve centers of support for the expose of WT policy on child molestation?

Personal attacks and Red Herrings. Ah, two of the hallmarks of a desperate (and ineffective) defense. If you had a valid argument, you would not have to resort to logical fallacies such as these.

Back to the drawing board, children.

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

31

An Un-Invitation Card

by ozziepost in

"do witnesses break up families?

" has been a common topic over the years.

this topic has been brought home to mrs ozzie and i by the following 'un-invitation card'.

arachnia

I agree with District Overseer when he suggests sending a card expressing dignified sadness and regret that they feel the way that they do. Be sure to keep it sad, not mad, because anger will only give them more ammo to "prove" that you are in the wrong. (After all, if let them see you are angry, it only proves to them you are defensive because of feeling guilty about something.)

Remember, this is *their* issue, not yours. Do not take ownership of it by accepting responsibility for their decision on the basis that you have done something "wrong." Be the better person. Send the gift and the card and while it might not affect them immediately, it will have to sit in the back of their mind and gnaw at them at the very least. And even if it doesn't, you've acted with more grace and dignity than have they, and can be the one to look yourself in the mirror without regretting your actions.

Good luck and hang in there. :) It's never easy.

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

89

What does everyone here DO anyway?

by In_between_days in

jw
friends

hi everyone,.

i am a new poster who is putting off their own personal story of finding this site for a while..... i find alot of people here utterly fascinating, and would like to know..... exactly what is everyones professional field of work?.

i would like to be a full time poster on this forum, but alas, the $$$$ are quite light in that field of work.. apologies if this has been asked before.. just curious.

arachnia

I work in IT - specificially, doing user/network support, some light project management, web design. Also, hubby and I run an online goth/industrial music community, I write for the site and cover events, etc. ( http://www.murknet.com)

Pursuing an undergrad in Anthropology/Social Sciences, after which I will probably work on an MLS/IS for my graduate work in order to eventually become a librarian/information scientist.

Really interesting mix of careers and interests in this thread. :)

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

3

Elderette Stories

by SumnerSloan in

jw
friends

simplesally's mention of the "elderette" making her own rules for streetwork, got me thinking: does anyone have any amusing (or more likely, totally obnoxious!

) elderette stories to share?

arachnia

There was one particular elderette at the Rochester, Michigan congregation where I grew up that I grew to despise. We'll need some history to understand what happened. Bear with me. ;)

I was about 13-14 when this happened. I was friends with her daughter (we'll call her Sally) who was my age. She had another daughter sixteen years older who studied with my mom (we'll call her (We'll call her Patrice), so our families were semi-close. Well, Patrice was married to a brother who we will call Bill. Bill and Patrice ended up getting divorced. One of them was DF'd for a time if memory serves. Bill ended up marrying a sister who moved here from Eastern Europe, who we will call Lisa.

Bill had a large family, who in theory were JW's but were considered "weak" in the congregation. Bill's brother married a sister who had two kids from her previous marriage, and her biological sister also attended the same KH, and was considered strong/outspoken. She definitely wore the pants in her family, although her husband was not JW. I was friends with all of those kids, who were cousins.

"Sally" had told me before that her mother had told her she was not permitted to associate with the kids mentioned in the above paragraph due to their association with "Patrice's" ex-husband, who was now their Uncle by marraige.

So, one time when I spent the night one of those girls' house, she asked me why "Sally" seemed to ignore her and would never attend any sleepovers she held, etc. I reluctantly explained what Sally had told me because I didn't want the girl to think it was something about her personally that Sally did not like.

Well, that was a mistake.

The next day at the meeting, the elderette ("Sally"'s mom) very sternly orders my mother and I into the back room along with the two biological sisters, "Sally" and the daughters of the two biological sisters. With much fanfare, she shut the accordion doors and from there the interoggation ensued. Turns out that one of the biological sisters gave the elderette a note inquiring about her banning "Sally" from associating with the other kids, as she did not feel that this was fair to the kids. Ms. Elderette turns it all back on me. She tells my mother I am a liar, breeding hate in the congregation. As "proof" she interoggates her daughter, "did I ever tell you that?" and Sally denies it. Whether or not Sally's mom said it or Sally made it up, who knows. But I didn't make it up. I was intimidated but also furious. But, it all ended with the elderette basically leaving things with me being a liar and everyone angrily left the room. Oh, how wonderful it is being someone's scapegoat. Not! :p

There were no elders present for this meeting, but they were aware of it taking place, and had given her permission to conduct it. A-holes.

OK, I know it was complicated to retell, but the story itself isn't simple, so thanks for bearing through to the end if you got this far. ;)

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

74

I'm thinking of applying for reinstatement

by Cygnus in

jw
friends

ok, here's how it is.. i just finished reading the "dead" thread.

now, listen.

i do not believe in life after death.

arachnia

Cygnus:

It's a tough situation you are in. Although most of my family (with the exception of my cousin) had left the JW's prior to my own departure, and my cousin has since left, it's still a struggle sometimes to abandon the baggage. For me, the baggage is all a part of the past, and I don't have anyone pressuring me, directly or insidiously, to return to the JW fold. I don't miss any of it, don't believe any of it, mind you, so my need for release has to do with letting go of programming, resentment, and anger about it all, and that in itself is a challenge.

The point is, if I (and others like myself, with similar circumstances) find it difficult to go through the process of "letting go", I can only imagine what it must be like for someone in your shoes, where you have a "live connection" to the Watchtower via your spouse. And let's face it, she's no doubt feeling the pressure, and has probably been terrified into believing that you are future "bird food." I don't know your situation, but even if she doesn't directly express a wish for you to return, I'm sure it's implied on a regular basis. That's tough. I don't envy your position.

On top of that, it sounds like you are very busy with work, but don't have a social outlet, and since it seems like we married folks tend to think about social interactions involving our spouses the majority of the time, that's got to be another pressure point. Again, I don't envy you.

However, I would really hate to see someone who doesn't agree with the JW's, and has seen through their charade, going back to them simply because it seems like the easy way to get friends back. If you can't truly follow their religion (and that will manifest to them) then they are going to question whether you are good association or not, and that's probably going to cause you and your wife grief.

But, it seems like you must have a decent marraige apart from the JW thing that has held you together all these years. Would you guys ever consider counseling from a professional therapist? Maybe there is some compromise you guys can reach that hasn't been thought of yet that a therapist could assist in structuring. Also, if you both were involved in it, perhaps she take the opportunity to talk about feelings that she might otherwise not feel safe discussing. (Again, I don't know her, but quite often women in the JW's don't feel the freedom to discuss their deep emotions/thinking for fear of reprisal. Well, so do men but women are probably more fearful because they have to be "submissive.") Just some ideas.

You are in a tough predicament. I wish you all the best of luck in finding your answers. :)

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

28

hi it's katie- i miss you guys

by airwlk149 in

jw
friends

hey guys it's katie.. for those people who do not know me, i am an inactive lesbian 18 year old jw, who was df'd & reinstated.

well, i don't consider myself a lesbian- i am just a female dating another female.

call me what you will.. ok- so anyways the other night i was sad and lonely.

arachnia

You said it!!!! I wanted to say that my whole life! THANK YOU THANK YOU! I had wondered if I was the only one who had parents who never pushed academics. My mother never asked if I did my homework. She barely glanced at my report cards. Now I'm 28 and entering college, knowing my B.A. is years away. I feel much more prepared now, knowing that I want to study and learn. But in high school it simply wasnt encouraged.
Your words really encouraged me and let me know I'm not alone!

Terafera-

It is very good to know that someone else understands how we feel about what happened (or, didn't happen) to us as kids, isn't it? :)

And I know that it can be really overwhelming, thinking about how long it's going to get our degrees now, etc., but it's like my (most awesome) mother-in-law reminds me, "What else are you going to spend your time on?" when she is trying to encourage me to not give it up because I'm discouraged. I have incredible in-laws, I love them dearly. :) They are still more of an encouragement to me than my own parents, who are no longer JW, but still can't see the value of an education unless it's something they themselves can understand (which basically means running their own business.) Get yourself some cheerleaders to help keep you encouraged along the way, it helps tremendously. I don't need them constantly cheering, but when I'm down in the dumps it sure helps to know that my husband, his family, and some of my close friends will be there to lift me back up. :)

Best wishes on furthering your education, you will love it! :)

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran