right now my body is half shaven with needle marks and bruises everywhere.
if i were stopped on the streets of chicago looking like this, staggering with fatigue, i would be arrested.
something we men have a hard time getting through our thick heads is that just because we feel basically okay, does not mean that we can or should do a lot physically after a traumatic event ... and i found this out by doing a little too much walking at the hospital chest tightened, became out of breath, and got dizzy.
Very glad to hear you are doing better Jim. Now just take it easy and take care of yourself! :)
Cheers,
~arachnia
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
-Princess Leia to Governor Tarkin in SW:ANH
i've noticed that quite a few people on this board have said that they are now pagan.
i'm starting to wonder if converting to paganism is something that many ex-jws do?
being a pagan myself, i am actually surprised at how i could choose the religion that jws probably hate the most.
In Robert Ackerman's foreward to the book "From Religion to Philosophy," he makes a good point.
"At any moment, people are able to think only in and with the concepts made available by the language and culture into which they were born."
I think that there is an additional personal layer for each individual. Our own distinct set of experiences, knowledge, and beliefs give us our own unique worldview that differs from person to person. It's as though those three factors form an equation of sorts the result of which is the worldview of the person in whom the equation has been worked.
As my sociology professor once pointed out, each one of us essentially has our own version of reality. That is not to suggest that we each live in our own separate dimension. However, it's something I think about on a regular basis when I'm trying to understand why people do the things they do. I know someone else is thinking about me in the same way at any given moment as well. ;) I suppose that's a part of our existance we tend take for granted: we fail to understand one another because we mistakenly assume that our worldview matches everyone elses. However, since all of our experiences, beliefs, and knowledge are different variables, the resulting worldview will also be different.
Granted, there are certain things that we can all agree on, they are solid facts. The sky is blue, for instance. But each person has their own interpretation of what shade of blue they would label it. There is room for variance in that particular interpretation. I'm not suggesting that everything can be summed up that easily, but many things can. And as I mentioned in my previous post,
for many people, giving symbol and structure to their goals/wishes allows them to focus on something physical so that their will can be realized. Does that mean it's a mystical source fulfilling their wishes? Perhaps not. Maybe they just needed that extra "boost" they received from building a physical representation of what they want to accomplish and it all came from within themselves. It works for some people. No, not everyone needs that. But magic and ritual have been constants in human culture for a long time now and so obviously they serve a function for some. Other people have different needs and therefore cannot see any logic in magical methods.And again, while it's been pointed out that this discussion is primarily in regards to Wicca, the subject line does say "Pagan" and therefore I feel obligated to point out that not all Pagans practice spells and magic, just so there is no confusion about this fact. To suggest that Pagan and Wicca are the same thing is equivalent to saying that Christianity and Catholicism are the same. This would mean that *all* Christians pray to Mary and go to confession as a part of their beliefs. Obviously we know that's not the case but it does make the point. :) And I'm not suggesting that anyone posting here doesn't understand that, however we know that there are far more lurkers/readers of posts than there are participants, and so I've written this for their benefit as well. :)
Cheers,
~arachnia
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
-Princess Leia to Governor Tarkin in SW:ANH
i've noticed that quite a few people on this board have said that they are now pagan.
i'm starting to wonder if converting to paganism is something that many ex-jws do?
being a pagan myself, i am actually surprised at how i could choose the religion that jws probably hate the most.
In order for any discussion to be productive, the subject matter has to be defined. I noticed some confusion about Pagan religions and thought it would be good to clarify just a couple of points. :)
Paganism and Wicca are not equivalent terms. Paganism is the "mother" and Wicca is the "child" term here. Paganism is a blanket term that encompasses a variety of paths, just as Christianity or Judeo-Christian serves the same function. It is a generic term and there are many "sects" within that each hold their own unique beliefs. As a comparison, you could say:
Christian > Protestant > Lutheran
and it would be roughly equivalent to saying:
Pagan > Witchcraft > Wicca
Not all Pagans are witches. Not all Pagans practice magic, and therefore do not perform spells. Some Pagans follow a path wherein they honor their ancestors by carrying on their traditions, which may or may not include working rituals that celebrate the turning of the year, such as harvest festivals, etc. Ritual does not automatically include spells, and quite often does not. In fact, most Pagans I know (and I know quite a few!) do not turn to spells/magic on a regular basis in order to resolve their problems. Generally they seek a mundane means first, and magic is a last resort.
A witch named Michael once said, "Magick is simply the art of getting results." I'm not suggesting I know a great deal about magic, but one thing I do know, for many people, giving symbol and structure to their goals/wishes allows them to focus on something physical so that their will can be realized. Does that mean it's a mystical source fulfilling their wishes? Perhaps not. Maybe they just needed that extra "boost" they received from building a physical representation of what they want to accomplish and it all came from within themselves. It works for some people. No, not everyone needs that. But magic and ritual have been constants in human culture for a long time now and so obviously they serve a function for some. Other people have different needs and therefore cannot see any logic in magical methods.
I say all of this as someone who has been studying Pagan religions, beliefs, and history since leaving the JW's in 1996. However, I myself am agnostic and still have a basic aversion to religion, and I can completely understand where atheists are coming from, so I'm not trying to defend the idea of whether or not people "need" religion or not. Suffice to say, I do not feel qualified to make that judgement on behalf of others. I know what my own needs are and right now they are satisfied for the most part. Obviously, I have some strong Pagan sentiments but I'm still figuring out where they fit in for me, and I'm doing that via a decidedly slow and patient study. :)
Cheers,
~arachnia
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
-Princess Leia to Governor Tarkin in SW:ANH
i just spoke on the phone to amazing (jim whitney) who is in intensive care in a chicago hospital.
on monday he had a major heart attack, had a stint put in an artery to unblock things and may have bypass surgery.
he's comfortable enough right now, but of course will have to make some big lifestyle changes.
Best wishes to Amazing on his speedy recovery!
Cheers,
~arachnia
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
-Princess Leia to Governor Tarkin in SW:ANH
"how dare you you should be ashamed of your selves because you know better i was raised for 30 years in the truth and all though i am no longer an atcive witness i canted belive what i just saw on tv to speak out like you did with half truths and outright lies you were never truly jehovah witnesses and never had real love for him.
Hmmm....all of these quotes from those defending the WT brought to mind some others...
Negotiation is irrelevant. You will be assimilated. ~Collective
Strength is irrelevant. Resistance is futile. ~Collective
Why do you resist? We only wish to raise quality of life for all species. ~Locutus
Freedom is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You must comply. ~Collective
You will become one with the Borg.
You will all become one with the Borg. ~Locutus
I am Locutus, of Borg. Resistance is futile. Your life as it has been, is over. From this time forward, you will service us. ~Locutus
Brave words. I've heard them before, from thousands of species across thousands of worlds, since long before you were created, but now, they are all Borg. ~Borg Queen
Don't listen to her. She's poisoned your thoughts long enough. ~Borg Queen [Or the WT to JW's listening to us heretics!]
Pleasure is irrelevant. ~7 of 9
You will be obsolete in the new order. ~Locutus
Cheers,
~arachnia
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
-Princess Leia to Governor Tarkin in SW:ANH
i know the usual parrot like rhetoric you all like to use.
"i abhor what is wicked".
give me a break, non, can't you be more original?
"Dissidents?" , "Dissidents!!!!"
They used this word at Bethel to describe brothers and sisters
whose conscience won't allow them to cooperate with corruption???
The only time I've ever heard the word 'dissidents' used was
in the context of people suffering under an oppressive
dictatorship like "Soviet dissidents" or "Chinese dissidents".
All the more reason for me to stick with my Soviet analogy
(complete with geriatric rulers and party hacks) when thinking
of the Watchtower.
It is an interesting choice of word, isn't it?
The English word "dissident" means to disagree, and is derived from the PIE roots "dis–" meaning "opposite" or "not," and "sed-" which means "to sit." So what I gather from that is that it is an active, rather than passive, disagreement in that the dissident refuses to "sit down and take it" any longer.
Look up "dissident" in the thesaurus and you will find that the word "heretic" is included in the related words. In fact, the definition of heretic incorporates "dissident:"
NOUN: A person who dissents from the doctrine of an established church
So, basically, the WT was indirectly calling those who stand against it's child molestation policy heretics. Fine. Because....."heresy is only another word for freedom of thought." So said Graham Greene. I am glad to be able to think freely since I left the JW's.
John Morley once observed, "Where it is a duty to worship the sun it is pretty sure to be a crime to examine the laws of heat." This is very much the sort of mentality that exists in the WT. They require unquestioning obedience to shallow laws which are flowered up to sound as though they are meaningful and important, when in fact it is simply to protect the racket that they have going on. There is no room for an examined life as a Jehovah's Witness. I'm glad that my heresy allows for that now. :)
Cheers,
~arachnia
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
-Princess Leia to Governor Tarkin in SW:ANH
i know the usual parrot like rhetoric you all like to use.
"i abhor what is wicked".
give me a break, non, can't you be more original?
Hey Bathory,
How's that crack *you're* obviously smoking?
HA HA HA HA HA, I'm so hilarious. That was comic relief. HA HA HA HA HA
(Hopefully the obvious sarcasm will be recognized here.)
Cheers,
~arachnia
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
-Princess Leia to Governor Tarkin in SW:ANH
i give it an a-plus.
i am pleasantly surprised.
actually i was more emotional than that.
Very well done, everyone who participated in the show. A special thanks to Dateline for making it all possible.
Cheers,
~arachnia
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
-Princess Leia to Governor Tarkin in SW:ANH
i was trying to do a little catching-up on posts this afternoon and read the thread where leander discussed his resignation as a ms as he is ending his days as a dub.
congratulations, leander!
you made the right choice!
There is nothing to challenge. Nothing on earth is more precious than the words of spirit and life contained in the Bible and the magazines of jws. Who would not want to steal such magazines? Even you really want them deep down inside. You just do not want to admit it.
------------------------------------------------
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
-Princess Leia to Governor Tarkin in SW:ANH
this morning i told my wife about my decision to step down as a ms and that i also would'nt be attending any meetings.
she made a few comments that i expected her to make, but strangely enough she was for the most part very silent.
she made it clear that she was against the decision but outside of a few other comments she said very little.
Congratulations Leander...enjoy your freedom! :)
Cheers,
~arachnia
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
-Princess Leia to Governor Tarkin in SW:ANH
