Posts by dubstepped

205

Hi Everyone. Answer to prayer countdown...

by Stumpy in

jw
friends

i've been lurking for about 3 months now and thought i'd better finally sign up.

you have all been an immense help to me as i have come to realize that this isn't the truth so i want to say a great big thank you!

what a crazy, emotional ride it is to finally face the truth about the doubts that i have carried for many years.

dubstepped

And those who treat me with the greatest distance are some of who used to be the closest to me. Many of those who were just acquaintances remain more or less the same. Odd.
Eden

Those closest to you have their own identity at stake. They identify with "The Truth", but they also identify with you as their close friend. When those two entities are in conflict, it threatens them. They know who you are and obviously respected your views on some level. To have such a person be negative about their other greatly respected entity is a threat to them and who they are and what they believe. I know how badly I fought what I started to see. It is easier to live in denial and cut you off than to try and hold two opposing views in their midst. I believe that's the very nature of cognitive dissonance. Those that weren't close to you have less skin in the game, less importance attached to you versus their beliefs, so you aren't a threat.

205

Hi Everyone. Answer to prayer countdown...

by Stumpy in

jw
friends

i've been lurking for about 3 months now and thought i'd better finally sign up.

you have all been an immense help to me as i have come to realize that this isn't the truth so i want to say a great big thank you!

what a crazy, emotional ride it is to finally face the truth about the doubts that i have carried for many years.

dubstepped

I feel for ya Stumpy, and Mrs. Stumpy. I've been on an emotional rollercoaster for some time now. Getting to your question to your wife about whether or not JW's have "the truth", I think that the organization sets themselves up for failure right there. By labeling what you have as "the truth", you had better bring it, and they don't. They have "some truths", but not "THE TRUTH" as they claim. As long as you blindly believe whatever they present as the one and only truth, as most do, never questioning, you are fine. It is when you open those eyes and start noticing things that things really get hard. I honestly think that if we could discuss openly the truths that we find that contradicted "THE TRUTH", and that if the organization as a whole had the humility to say that they really don't know on this or that instead of trying to predict things or read into things, then maybe someday I could find a place in the organization. But I can't sit there and listen to people spread hurtful untruths at the meetings, all the while claiming them as "THE TRUTH", and espousing such vitriol to others in the world simply because they don't believe the exact same way. Beliefs are mere thoughts, not the measure of who a person truly is. It reflects more as to what that person was taught than who they are.

I was recently reading "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle, and although I don't agree with all of it, he really speaks to the difference between the ego and who we really are. He gets into organized religion and the "collective ego" that it breeds, wherein all involved identify so much with their thoughts and belief structures that they simply cannot discuss openly any challenges to those structures because it is really questioning who they are at that point, which they cannot handle. THAT is the JW organization as a whole, all about thoughts and uniformity and identification with such, not open minded seekers of truth that are allowed to be who they are individually within the structure of the organization. When I lurked here I always thought that those calling us "The Borg" was so fitting. It is a tough place to be once you wake up. For now I just don't have a place where I fit in entirely, and I finally feel like that's okay, because I get to be me, not some robot version of me.

Just remember, anything you decide today isn't permanent. Life is a filmstrip, not a snapshot. One moment doesn't necessarily define you. You'll go through stages of grief with this like anything else. You just lost something HUGE in your life. I'm not sure you ever get over it, you will learn how to manage those feelings better though, and time heals a lot of wounds. You don't have to decide anything today, just take your time and leave it in Jehovah's hands if you still have faith in Him, or leave it in the hands of time.

205

Hi Everyone. Answer to prayer countdown...

by Stumpy in

jw
friends

i've been lurking for about 3 months now and thought i'd better finally sign up.

you have all been an immense help to me as i have come to realize that this isn't the truth so i want to say a great big thank you!

what a crazy, emotional ride it is to finally face the truth about the doubts that i have carried for many years.

dubstepped

I know how you feel. Last year I was determine to fix my spirituality, to really get on track in the organization. I prayed a lot that Jehovah would show me what my wife and I needed to do. The answer wasn't what I thought it would be. Where things take me, we'll see. I leave it in Jehovah's hands and if I'm wrong in the end it won't be because I didn't have faith in Jehovah. I see the organization as a disaster just like the Israelites though.

A quote I like is to "run with those that search for truth, and run like hell from those that claim to have found it".

5

I had every intention of going to the Memorial last night.......

by dubstepped in

i wanted to go and to do it for jehovah and jesus and what they've done for me.

i wanted it to be a personal thing between them and i. i haven't been to a meeting in close to a year, not that anyone notices or cares.

this isn't my first stint away, and nobody would notice or care if i was found dead.

dubstepped

......I really did. I wanted to go and to do it for Jehovah and Jesus and what they've done for me. I wanted it to be a personal thing between them and I. I haven't been to a meeting in close to a year, not that anyone notices or cares. This isn't my first stint away, and nobody would notice or care if I was found dead. That whole "love" thing that JW's claim to own the rights to and be identified by is certainly not theirs alone, nor is it their's predominantly. Anyway, I know that if I go I'm going to get lots of insensitive and rude comments, among some that seem sincere and caring, at least as long as I make the effort to be in their presence. Otherwise they don't care.

So, I prayed about it as the time neared. I wanted to go, but I was starting to get anxious about doing so. I wanted to leave it in Jehovah's hands, and I told him in prayer that if he didn't want me to go to make it plain to me. Well, that night I got this really weird weather alert text on my phone, so loud that it woke me up. I've had this phone for a long time and never received such an alert. I didn't know it was the phone, but instead got up and looked outside. We were having severe weather, and it was truly an other worldly noise. Eventually I pieced it together in my 2:00AM haze. However, then I couldn't go back to sleep for a couple of hours, another thing that was out of the ordinary. Usually I fall asleep with ease. I then woke up for work really horribly, a rough start to the day. I was honestly in a mood to rip someone's head off when I woke up, not conducive to walking into a Kingdom Hall to be met with judgement. The clincher was when someone in the hall called to let us know that they were going into a similar business as us and that if we had some extra work we could give it to them. Not to see if we were still alive, not to encourage us in any way, not someone that has contacted us in years, but someone that just wanted us to give them business.

I had my answer right there. No way was I going last night. I had a headache when I woke up, felt horrible, hated people, and then one of them calls for their own selfish gain because none of them actually care about anything but themselves. In the words of Ruckley from One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, "f-f-f-f fuck em all"!

I wanted to go. I wanted to be the bigger man when I went, to be pleasant to people even though they've hurt me deeply over my life. I left it in Jehovah's hands, and he told me that it wasn't for me. What is? I don't know, but I do know that when I put things in His hands I usually get an answer if I'm patient. I had a couple of out of the ordinary things happen in a matter of hours. But I know that those humans that I've tried so hard to fit into over the years, that have treated me so poorly, can all go jump off a cliff. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me umpteen times, shame on me, and fuck you for being toxic. I'm done trying.

5

Exclusive Witnesses might be more Appropriate!

by yodastar in

i've been thinking of late that really what is the difference between the exclusive witnesses and the exclusive brethren?

) they are controlling, limiting and the only right way as far as religion goes.. in fact the 'truth' slogan was an amazing marketing campaign and really does work for those members.

are you in the truth one would ask?

dubstepped

I went through a lot of emotional abuse as a kid from both the organization and my parents. Whether witnesses or not, my parents are damaged, and hurt people tend to hurt people.

I might recommend you read or at least look into the book called Narcissistic Families. It described my family well, but the religion too. Basically narcissists see other humans as mere objects to be controlled. They don't care about your feelings and don't see you as a person with them. That pretty much sums up my experiences.

I also read a good book on emotional abuse if you're interested. I can't remember the name offhand.

11

Disfellowshipping is an loving arrangment. NOT!!!!

by gma-tired2 in

alert this is a rant.

recently i lost someone very special to me to death.

she was so many things to me, my cousin, best friend, and next door neighbor thru our teens.

dubstepped

First let me say that I'm so sorry to hear this experience. It is sad that JW's don't let love govern their actions and reactions and instead have become so rule oriented and rigid.

Second, the title of this thread is something has really been hammered home by the brothers and sisters but that doesn't hold water. It was always explained that it was to help the erring one to return to Jehovah. But if their relationship with Jehovah hangs on blackmailing them into coming back simply to avoid shunning, what relationship is there really? And if this is all supposedly about a relationship between Jehovah and that person, why am I somehow put in the middle of it? Their relationship is between them and Jehovah, not them and me. Not to mention that some just change their mind on what they choose to believe, which is their personal decision. Why do we then have to treat them as less than any other "worldly" person? Doesn't make sense to me.

15

One day assembly

by Sour Grapes in

jw
friends

at a recent one day assembly i walked away with the thought that the wtbts sure does not like witnesses who have the opportunity to make a good living.

there were, in one day, three experiences of witnesses who turned down "6 figure salaries" because there would be some traveling involved and some meetings would be missed as well as missing family worship night.

i thought it strange that the exact phrase was used of "6 figure salary".

dubstepped

Oh man, this is a sore spot for me. At the international convention one of the GB (I believe, may be wrong) gave a talk where he related an experience of some brother that cut his income to less than half but somehow now made more money because he didn't have to pay so many taxes. I really doubt the guy was paying 50% income tax. They seem to have no concept of money. I grew up poor in the organization, and although we didn't have enough food at times without gifts from others or government assistance and of course we weren't getting new toys or anything, we certainly had time to go out and pioneer with our parents as young kids.

At an assembly locally a family was up on stage as a shining example of how to live on the government and pioneer, and it made me sick. I hustle in my cleaning business and break my back because I was turned away from full ride scholarships and several unique business opportunities because I knew that the world was going to end and the right thing to do was to pioneer. I walked away from opportunities that could have actually given me a better chance at earning a living part-time to promote kingdom interests while not eating dog food to survive and that was looked at as bad. I wonder how many dubs have anything saved for retirement. I know so many that live off of government assistance, which was meant for those that couldn't do better for themselves, not for those who chose not to. I make decent money, but only because I work harder, not smarter.

145

Why attack?

by newqatarjob in

as someone brought up as a jw and been an elder and been disfellowshipped (twice!!!

) i find it difficult to understand why ex jws have to attack the religion, yes religion, not cult or sect.

i am no longer disfellowshipped just do not want to practice anymore.

dubstepped

I kind of feel like the OP a bit. Mostly on the "live and let live" part. Some of the threads here are people looking to make something out of nothing, really stretching to try and make the dubs look bad. Have I been victimized by the organization? You bet. Am I hurting and still kind of on edge? Yep. Do I want to stay in victim mode and devote the rest of my life to proving a negative, or to find something positive to dwell on? Give me something positive that moves forward rather than the negativity of the past, carrying it forth daily into the future.

13

Remember this scripture: kindly yoke, light load, refreshment for your soul...

by Muddy Waters in

matthew 11:28-30 "come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and i will refresh you.

29 take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for i am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and you will find refreshment for yourselves.

30 for my yoke is kindly, and my load is light.. do you remember this scripture?

dubstepped

I never felt like they told me that I should feel. There were tons of "shoulds" and when I didn't measure up, I figured there must be something wrong with me. Now, it turns out that I grew up in a ridiculously emotionally abusive home and my emotions were pretty much walled off to protect me, but regardless I would watch people have certain intense feelings about things that I could never experience.

Since being away, I've come to realize that lots of the feelings that people have are just romanticized ideals. They are about as real as ladies reading ridiculous romantic novels that aren't how anyone would possibly act or react. JW's have a list of romanticized "shoulds" and they parrot these over the top feelings and works so as to fit in, when in reality they aren't how anyone would really feel or speak about the subject at hand. You just feel more "spiritual" if you do and say the right things. So much of what was said in magazines and from the platform wasn't relating to me because it seemed puffed up to be more than it was. All of the busy work that I was supposed to go ape over was just part of it. I did it all, but just got worn down. It never felt like the "privilege" that I was told it was, and in the end I just felt "used" in the congregation, like the verbiage often states, but not in the way they intend it.

64

Mind control.

by New day in

in a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.

do you think this is a conscious ploy?

if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.

dubstepped

The WTS is the poster child for Hassan's description of using mild control techniques. Step by step by step they fit the pattern. That is not and cannot be an unconscious coincidence.

My thought on this point is that those mind control techniques that were observed were just that, observed. In other words, instead of being a set game plan that is intentionally executed, they are merely the traits exhibited in high control environments. As such a pattern, observed in various organizations, it actually would be a coincidence, wouldn't it? Just like people that are enablers often follow the same patterns of codependence, or the way that any set of humans seem to follow the same group behavioral patterns. The enabler doesn't sit down and go through a step by step checklist of how to manipulate another human being, they just behave a certain way that others in similar circumstances follow as patterns of human behavior responsive to certain circumstances.

It's kind of like I have ADHD. I had no clue that I had it until in my thirties. I had certain issues in life, and then found this group of people that had the same behavioral patterns, even a checklist of them (the DSM). I never set out to act a certain way, my behaviors were just indicative of an issue that I had, not intentional at all.