I think it all comes down to openness and courage to face fears and challenge things, looking for something better as a seeker in life. Most people prefer the comfort of thinking they have found what they're looking for and that illusion to the life of constantly seeking and growing. Growing pains accompany such seeking, and most seek to avoid the pain. There are plenty of intelligent, caring, self-sacrificing people that will simply not have the natural ability or tools that it takes to step out on their own and buck the system, whatever that system is. Look through history and it is those that stood apart as different that grew the most, but they were also the rarity. It isn't the quality of person that matters but specific qualities of that person that can make one see TTATT and walk away.
dubstepped
JoinedPosts by dubstepped
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69
Why Me?
by John Aquila indo you ever wonder why out of all the witnesses, you are the one that woke up?
i wonder many times why me.
i know many men and women that are much, much better persons than me; either they are much smarter, more humble, kinder, more successful, or just better persons all around.
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Having One Of Those "Pondering Disassociation" Days :(
by freemindfade inthere are a lot of things that make me have days like this, the utter embarrassment of being are part of a cult that protects child abusers, that enforces emotional brutality through shunning, and that lies constantly.
the lying i can tolerate, the world is built on bullshit, i have a high lie tolerance.
i can ignore it if it has no effect on me etc.
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dubstepped
FMF: Just had an epiphany, my large, uber dub family is a cult within a cult.
So they sustain this thing on two levels. wow..An excellent observation. Sadly, often the uber dub family is the much more stringent and dysfunctional cult than even the organization. Nobody will turn their backs on you faster than family, at least in my experience.
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i feel more confused than ever
by BlackWolf inwell i know i've been posting a lot of topics like this lately and i'm sorry if i sound whiny or annoying.
my parents were asking me why i was so upset lately and i ended up just telling them the whole truth.
i told them i don't believe in god or the bible because i don't have any evidence of anything.
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dubstepped
I told them I didn't like feeling controlled and they told me "where not controlled we chose this" ......
Umm.........maybe they should listen to your choice then. To do otherwise would be controlled, and like they said, they would never do such a thing, right? I love the JW double talk.
You're a kid. Good grief, until I hit 30 I really was quite clueless and lacked a lot of perspective on the world. That's when I really started learning how the world works and put things together, started realizing who I was and who my wife really was, and really started maturing. And I wasn't some dumb kid before then. Always intelligent, hard working, had it all together from what others saw and seemed like a great example. I was never in any kind of trouble and excelled where I tried. However, I really was naive and had a LOT to learn, and I'm sure I still do even now, though the amount I've learned in the past 8 years trumps the previous 30. I think there was a reason that even Jesus wasn't baptized until so late by today's standards, and he was perfect. That's a huge step and unfortunately JW parents often push their children into it and then effectively give them a death sentence in the organization by signing them to a lifelong contract without allowing them time to have any perspective. I know my parents got to make the choice and turned their backs on their former religions, but if I do it that's a horrible thing that I should be shunned forever for. Hypocrites!
So man, take it slow. You've got so much time to learn and grow. You're a kid, so be one. Don't take on adult problems that you have no real need to take on right now. Enjoy life, learn, watch the examples of others and observe how their lives turn out. You can learn a lot just by watching others. I've always done that. Don't let people push you into doing things that you don't want to do, even if they're well meaning like your own parents. Don't let people make you feel doomed and do anything out of fear. Fear isn't a good reason to act. It can be a motivator, for sure, but there are much better ones. You have time to make decisions. Enjoy the process and don't rush anything.
Take care!
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Having One Of Those "Pondering Disassociation" Days :(
by freemindfade inthere are a lot of things that make me have days like this, the utter embarrassment of being are part of a cult that protects child abusers, that enforces emotional brutality through shunning, and that lies constantly.
the lying i can tolerate, the world is built on bullshit, i have a high lie tolerance.
i can ignore it if it has no effect on me etc.
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dubstepped
I should probably add that we too had DA and non-DA days. It is a tough decision to make and one that I don't think most people can ever be truly at absolute peace with because ultimately the choices aren't good. The win-win is what most people want, to be able to freely choose for themselves which direction they want to go and to have the support of their loved ones. They don't allow for that option and therefore losses will occur. If we stayed in and kept playing the fading game we would lose respect for ourselves because of giving in to someone else's wishes for us and we'd be fake like them. If we left, at least we walked away with something.
It sounds like you, FMF, have friends at least. If they can be your friends while you fade, maybe DAing isn't worth it. Unfortunately, from reading countless experiences, it seems that most find the loss of those people inevitable. We knew that in our case we really had none left anyway. DAing was still tough because it is a permanent bell that can't be unrung. However, DA'ing was being true to ourselves, even if the choice isn't one we wanted to have to make. We hold our heads high now instead of hiding who we were. One of my favorite quotes is:
"Is the life you're living worth the price you're paying?"
For us, the answer was no, and necessitated a change. I really feel for everyone on here in this predicament.
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Having One Of Those "Pondering Disassociation" Days :(
by freemindfade inthere are a lot of things that make me have days like this, the utter embarrassment of being are part of a cult that protects child abusers, that enforces emotional brutality through shunning, and that lies constantly.
the lying i can tolerate, the world is built on bullshit, i have a high lie tolerance.
i can ignore it if it has no effect on me etc.
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dubstepped
It's very tough because you aren't given many options. My wife and I chose to DA together. If we didn't feel the same I can only imagine how much I'd be torn. For us it came down to a few things:
1. Our families shunned us already for reaching out to my DFed brother. One called us apostates simply for that one act after nearly a decade of shunning him.
2. If a blood transfusion were needed we'd both take one and be instantly DA'ed anyway. So it was inevitable in such an instance and the last thing we'd want in a medical emergency is those people meddling.
3. Ultimately we have to be authentic. We have to let others do the same. We can't let our lives be held back by the threats of others. They do have power and honestly by DA'ing we took it away from them. No longer do they have any say. Yes, they have our family. Yes, we are shunned. However, if they're in a toxic cult what possible positive interactions would we have anyway. Now they can't talk to us, and that's a positive. We don't want their condescending speech and guilt trips anyway. They can get healthy and we'll be here for them, unlike their attitude toward us. We behave in love, not control, and we didn't want to be controlled anymore.
4. We saw how the organization is truly deceptive and manipulates people. I tried so hard to see it as caring that went to far. Sorry, but once I saw instance after instance in a pattern, it showed as intentional manipulation to me. I can't be somebody's puppet. Jehovah gave me free will. Freedom can't exist in a cult, and it doesn't in the JW religion.
There were many other reasons, but those are the biggies. Hopefully soon we get official closure and it is announced, maybe even tonight.
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The JW Family
by dubstepped inmaybe this is a bit obtuse, but see if you can follow me here and maybe throw in your own views.
as i see it, the organization as a whole is a family, and like most, it is dysfunctional.
you have the parents in those taking the lead (gb, elders, overseers, etc.
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dubstepped
Ultimately it ends up real lonely from what I've seen here. The shunning is inevitable. I hate that it is that way but you just can't create openness in a closed minded group. If it helps any, I always like your posts Millie. I have enjoyed reading them and like your perspective. It's a shame that people like my wife and I, like you, and so many others end up getting trampled on and the beautiful optimism ends up crushed in the end with these people. There is a beautiful freedom on the other side that we're finding as we make new friends and reconnect with long lost family. -
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The JW Family
by dubstepped inmaybe this is a bit obtuse, but see if you can follow me here and maybe throw in your own views.
as i see it, the organization as a whole is a family, and like most, it is dysfunctional.
you have the parents in those taking the lead (gb, elders, overseers, etc.
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dubstepped
Ha, this post just popped up for me on the side so I thought I'd bump it 3 months after I wrote it. I was wrong. This "family" that I talked about is completely toxic and screwed. Get out! Run! They are a cult and they're literally stuck in a tiny box of beliefs and it CANNOT be repaired. Repairing it would mean that both sides would have to meet in the middle, and JW's are completely inflexible. That was my ever hopeful spirit, my deep desire talking, thinking that somehow it could be fixed. Here I am 3 months later and still waiting on these morons to get their act together enough to let me DA (hopefully they've been able to find my letter by now that I sent them). You cannot find a happy medium. It is truly all or nothing, black or white, and I was naive enough to think that somehow I would be able to find that shade of gray where we could live and let live, allowing each other to be who we are individually while still maintaining contact. Nope. As soon as you have the smell of a doubter you're marked a traitor, a filthy apostate that is like poison to them. They will push you away with the quickness.
So, I was wrong. I wrote something beautiful that reflected something beautiful that I hoped could happen because I was an eternal optimist, but all I saw in my own example and in that of others on here and in so many other places was ugly over the past months. JW's are ugly. They put on a facade of love and peace and unity while just under the surface lies judgement and divisiveness and control. There is no real love there. Thus, there's no reason to keep trying. It can be their way or no way at all. You are just a pawn in their game, nothing more. I can't wait to get my official release papers from them confirming my DA. I hate to leave my family behind, but their shallow love based on control isn't something I want to keep around. Like they always said in illustrations, would you drink a cup of water if it had just a little toxic poison in it? Of course not! So, I cast this cup away from me. It was toxic and it just made me toxic while I continued to drink from it.
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Dealing With ANGER!!
by kairos inlittle help i'd like to pass on from another cult survivor to me.. not jw but a violent, physically captive indian cult.. she says on anger:.
it's the longest lasting emotion with have.. it takes at least 90 seconds for it to run it's course once we stop.a lot can happen in 90 seconds, and some of the most horrible exchanges and actions happen right after the anger first manifests itself.. we're experiencing fantastic results by just going for a very short walk ( 90 seconds out in the yard or other room ) before continuing the conversation.. when my wife and i come back together we can smile, embrace and congratulate each other for avoiding a horrible day.. before it even becomes anger, wait 3-5 seconds before making your reply.
slow it down!!
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dubstepped
I was one angry dude for most of my life. Then one day it hit me that although anger and rage was at the surface, sometimes dangerously so, it was all just a front for deep sadness and hurt. Once I started asking myself what I'm really feeling under the anger I was better able to deal with the cause instead of just the symptom. It has helped me more than anything else in dealing with anger. Reading about the ego helped me to see that often that was what caused the anger, feeling out of control or like I looked bad in a situation. Verbalizing what those deeper things under the anger were really helped me be more authentic and my wife and I have a much better relationship than we ever did. I have much less road rage. Stepping back and watching myself and my reactions as they're happening (thanks mindfulness) helps me to be present and to call myself out before reacting badly because I can see the signs now.
Like you said, just taking a second to cool off, or doing some exercise like walking, helps give us a minute to process instead of reacting. Good for you for taking the challenge head on. It is tough sometimes even just to walk away for a minute, but so worth it.
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Remember the two elderly sisters?
by John Aquila inabout a month ago i posted what had happened to two elderly sisters who were reprimanded by a couple of elders for crying because the jw broadcasting was going to be stopped at the kingdom hall and it was up to each publisher to learn how to use the internet.
if you recall the sisters got together with my mom and talked about it and it resulted in all of them declining to make meals for the pioneers.
here is the link.
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dubstepped
Wow, so much for confidentiality.
Just kidding, that's awesome. Treat people like crap and they may just treat you in kind WTBTS. You bring things on yourself sometimes.
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New Inactive One Saying Hello to all
by Lostwun inlostwun here, i joined 2 months ago but am now just finding the courage after doing more research to formally introduce myself to the board and embrace my new beginnings as an ex-jw.
i am a second-generation jw.
i grew up with parents who are well known and very respected in many circuits.
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dubstepped
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. You're conditioned to see everyone outside the Borg as a danger. Here's a thread that may help:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/422560001/oh-my-god-we-associated-worldly-people
I've been scared through this whole process. I believed in my heart that as soon as I started reading apostate sites I'd die in a fiery car crash, that once I started hanging out with worldly people my wife would get raped and I'd die in a fiery car crash, that once I DA'd I'd lose my business and my wife would get raped and I'd die in a fiery car crash. Fear is a great way to manipulate people, and we've all been manipulated by it. That's not to say that one doesn't have to be careful who they associate with, but that's true whether in the "world" or in the Borganization. See the recent Australian Royal Commission hearings to learn about some that lurk in the organization. Not all are on the up and up, and if you've been around long you've run into toxic people that you know to stay away from even in the organization. I believe it was Ray Franz that pointed out that there are locks on the doors to the rooms at Bethel because they've had problems with thievery. The world outside the organization doesn't own the rights to all nefarious conduct. In fact, I've found the people outside to be much nicer and more genuine than what I grew up with. I've turned down so many offers of hospitality from "worldly" people throughout my life when no JW was asking me to do anything socially ever. Now my wife and I can say yes to them and so far we've had fun. We have much more support now and it is so beautiful and free.