The JW Family

by dubstepped 28 Replies latest jw friends

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped

    Maybe this is a bit obtuse, but see if you can follow me here and maybe throw in your own views. As I see it, the organization as a whole is a family, and like most, it is dysfunctional. You have the parents in those taking the lead (GB, elders, overseers, etc.) and the kids that they're trying to raise (publishers in the congregations). However, I was reading some of the latest WT (September I believe) and it was really hitting me as to how things go in this family and my wife and I were discussing it. Here is what we see:

    The parents are what one would call "helicopter parents" today. They stand over their kids and watch their every move and criticize it. They tell their kids what they should think, how they should feel, and always expect more. Much like the kid that has a dad that played baseball when he was younger and failed to live up to his own aspirations to get to the major leagues, we have parents that always want more and more. They don't take into account our individual limitations and/or interests. They expect us to play the game they way they want it played and to always practice, practice, practice so that we can get better. Could it be that if they'd at least leave room for imperfection and differences they might find out that we excel in some other game, or could play the game the way we're wired instead of just being little "mini-me" versions of them as they try to squeeze us into a predetermined mold?

    Our parents in the organization are also narcissists. As mentioned, they not only see everything through their eyes and expect us to fall in line and follow suit, but we're little more than objects to them. We're here to validate their feelings, to make them look good. If we don't, just like any object, we can be discarded. And we know that. We don't walk around feeling loved, we walk around the organization feeling like we need to measure up, knowing that even one slip up could cost us dearly. Our parents make mistakes themselves, but when they do they get to gloss over them. Their mistakes slip into oblivion, not to be mentioned or pointed out, as any good narcissist will easily manipulate things so that their own mistakes are not pointed out. In fact, a good narcissist will make you think that you're the one that's wrong if you try to point out their error. They must manipulate in order to keep their position over you. In our case, they set themselves up as masters of our faith, contrary to what they're supposed to be.

    As their children, we want to be looked upon with favor, so we spend some time trying to live up to what they want. However, there comes a point for many of us where we realize that we can never do so. They always want more, we're never good enough. The constant striving makes us tired and exasperated, to use a Biblical term. We then become downhearted, and start questioning our parents. It is really the only thing that we can do at that point. All of the sudden we start seeing that our parents are just messed up people repeating patterns from their parents. They're not superior to us, just older. Likely they are doing a better job than their parents if they have any desire to do better for themselves, and we'll strive to do better than they did in life. Ultimately though, the dad that you saw as Superman when you were little and that you looked up to is reduced to just a man. Another human, probably doing his best, but falling into patterns of conditioning and culture like we all do. It doesn't negate everything he's ever told you, as even the most abusive, horrible parents probably instilled some good things in their kids. Few things are all good or all bad. Regardless, that faith you once had in your parent is now crushed. As kids we set them up on high, but as adult parents they set themselves up for this too. They put themselves on a pedestal and lorded their position over us. They were always right, they knew what was right for us, and even when they were wrong they tried to blame us. It is sad, but ultimately in these types of families there's going to be a lot of fallout, and the parents brought a lot of it on themselves.

    They have other children though that will defend those parents to the bitter end. Those children cannot see the defects of their parents. It hurts too much for them to acknowledge it, so they live life thinking those parents can do no wrong. If you mention that mom or dad did something negative, they will defend them and you end up the bad guy.

    These types of families can be repaired. It takes transparency and humility though, and narcissists have a hard time ever finding the ability to do such. They lack the compassion of Jesus, who looked at the value of little kids and wanted them brought to him because he saw the characteristics that they possessed. Instead they see the kids as little more than problems, trying to keep them at bay.

    Any thoughts? Maybe you see it differently? It honestly mirrors a lot of my own upbringing, from my literal family to my so called spiritual one that I grew up with as a Witness.

  • nonjwspouse
    nonjwspouse

    The damage done to the child is not "repaired" but sometimes can be recognized then managed.

    That particular family unit is toxic. A relationship is managed, but not "repaired".The past hard is too great to repair. IMO

    The WTBTS has at its very core a damaging "relationship" with the followers.This is my outside opinion looking in.

    Could you, in your analogy, say the same thing about Scientologists? As if the approach, if changed, could then make the Scientology core views ( core family) valid?

  • millie210
    millie210

    I always love reading the perspective of others as it helps me define my own.

    You have put a lot of thought in to your post and I appreciate that!

    I agree with many of your points and a couple of them are a little harder for me..like seeing them as benignly just doing the best they can.

    I used to think that (so I definitely get and support your doing so) but now I see them as a little more avaricious and more of a machine grinding people up to feed the jaws of financial gain.

    I do realize I am rather reactionary though (this is a phase - I will pass through it) so dont let my honest answer sway your analogy. Its all a process and I respect your process and get your point.

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped

    Surprised you focused on on one word NJWS, but you are probably right. "Repaired" may not be the best word. It isn't like you can erase the past or make it right. Obviously, the core views would have to be changed, as that's where the humility comes into play. Most people that I've heard relate experiences from a screwed up childhood just want to be heard, acknowledged, and sincerely apologized to by their parents. To be seen for who they are means the world to them. For the future to be brighter, those parents would have to do a lot of changing themselves. As such, their core values would change.

    The fact that I would hold out hope for change is just a possibility. It is a slim one, as toxic is as toxic does, and toxic people rarely suddenly become healthy. However, as the progeny of toxicity, I once was much more toxic than I am today. I was merely emulating what I had been brought up in. I was humble, and I'm a seeker, so I sought out better and happier ways to be. Not everyone goes down that path, in fact probably few do, but I do know that it is possible, even if not probable.

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped

    Hi Millie,

    I see where a lot of my view could differ from your because we see their intent differently. You seem to see them as cold parents seeking to profit off their kids. I see them more as parents that are overzealous in wanting what they themselves see as best for their kids and going too far (though I have to say that being controlling and manipulative to get people to act as you wish isn't really so benign).

    There's a scripture in Proverbs that JW's translate one way and others translate another that I've found interesting for a long time. JW's translated it along the lines of "train up a boy in the way in which he should walk", whereas other translations say something along the lines of "train up a boy in the way in which he is bent". The JW version makes it all about the parent. You know what's best for him and make him toe that line. That's reflective of how I see the organization. The other translations put the emphasis on the way that individual child is wired, and the parent should help that child find his own way and to work within that child's individual framework to help them find their path. I like that much better. It seems much more healthy. That's the way I wish things were. To me it seems like the JW parents in this case see themselves as right in all things and as such, father knows best, as the saying goes.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    Hey there DubStepped.

    You must have taken a Psychology course or two. A lot of what you say sounds "right on" to JWdom, as well as my "family of origin".

    The fact that I would hold out hope for change is just a possibility. It is a slim one,

    I kept hoping things would change, also. (Note my Member ID) Originally, I thought it more practical to try to "change things from within". That didn't work. I found you had to be either a "Company Man" or you would be sidelined.

    At this point, if the site would allow it, I'd change my ID to: "Doubtful of Change".

    Doubtful Doc

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped

    Ha, no psychology courses per se, but I'm a people watcher that's had to do a LOT of work on myself coming from my family of origin. I've been through a lot of books and constantly question and try to learn. My life has been a course in and of itself, and the books help me to clarify things.

    I too tried to change things from within, though the odds are stacked against anyone doing so. I used to be told to "be the change you want to see in the world", and came to the conclusion that although that is fine and dandy if you just want to be different yourself, if you have any expectation of changing others by doing so you're crazy. What is more likely, that one person can change an entire organization, or that the organization will either wear you down or boot you out. Or, like I am kind of doing, you run screaming from it when you just can't take anymore.

    The organization is very perfectionistic. Their hyperbolic verbiage used in publications, such as "never would we want to have such an impure thought", or "we should always be (insert positive attribute here)" are just ridiculous assertions that leave no room for imperfection. Everything is black or white, right or wrong, good or bad. Ultimately, you are in or you are out. I remember talks about how you cannot sit on the fence, you are either on one side or the other. Come to think of it, that makes no sense. You literally can straddle a fence. They are the ones saying that you can't, but that's factually untrue in their illustration. It is just how they see the world. They will live at Armageddon and everyone else will die. Although if those people died today they would be resurrected. They just have the unfortunate circumstance of living in a time where they could die at Armageddon so they don't get a chance to die and be forgiven of their sins or for not listening to the person at their door with magazines. Ugh, I could go on, but the black and white thinking alone is a cognitive distortion (look it up) that indicates dysfunctional thinking.

    I love your proposed name change.

  • Bigdummy
    Bigdummy

    My personal experience and observation of being in for almost 60 years is this. The children of

    some of the elders and the children of other prominent authority figures before the elder arrange-

    ment were some of the worst examples of child upbringing. Whether the child was bent to be unruly

    from the start I don't know. But I was in several different halls during my lifetime because of my dad's

    work. Some elders kids were into drugs and got some of the other kids involved in them. One elders'

    son got a sister pregnant and he went to Bethel. When she started showing a few months later the

    beans got spilled so to speak and he was sent home only to go to prison several years later over

    something I don't recall. I've seen quite a bit over my lifetime at the hall. Nobody is perfect and I sure

    ain't. I've done things I'm not proud of but I can't go back and fix it now. I used to beat myself over my

    mistakes but I try to go on and be happy. There was a youngster in our hall one time that 90% of the

    cong thought he was a child prodigy. When he commented or gave talks most people in the hall

    looked at him and were in amazement. The PO thought the kid was the reincarnate of the Apostle

    Paul or something. My wife and I knew better. We had a son this boys age and they hung around

    together so we could see what was probably the real deal. Several years went by and this kid just

    went absolutely off the rails. I'm not a psychic who can see ahead but I do have a lifetime of seeing

    and reading people's behavior and actions for a long long time. It's just a learned thing. Kids are

    kids. I pretty well know them. I've been working with them for 12 years in a school setting and as

    a bus driver. If you try to keep them under your thumb at all times, you got problems. Give them

    a little space and treat them like youngsters and don't expect adult type behavior from them, and you

    will fare better. Getting back on point,I think, and I have zero credentials to back me up, that some

    elders think their little sons are always potential elders or Bethelites and they are raised under

    strict enviroment. When given the chance later on in their formative years they have had enough

    and they rebel. Not always, but a lot of times. I could relate myriads of examples of these kinds

    but I'm sure everybody here has their own examples they could relate. My 2 cents and it may not

    be worth that!

  • poopie
    poopie

    You fell for the trick God alrighty views all as kids so if you allow yourself to be treated as a.child by other children then that's your problem

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped
    If you try to keep them under your thumb at all times, you got problems. Give them
    a little space and treat them like youngsters and don't expect adult type behavior from them, and you
    will fare better.

    If I remember correctly, when I was a kid I heard an illustration many times about a spring. The speakers would say that if you have a spring squished between your two fingers and you let it go too quickly, it will bounce all over the place unpredictably. However, if you slowly open your fingers you can control how it opens up and avoid the chaos. The point was for parents to give their kids freedom and responsibility slowly. My question is this: Why do you have to crush them between your fingers in the first place? Maybe you don't have to have a controlling death grip on them from day one. Of course, they would never see it that way. And yes, we all know examples that mirror the ones that you mentioned. Controlling behavior rarely works out for the better.

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