Posts by artful

9

Voices in Head Not Demons? - WT Writers Have a Reasonable Moment?

by NeonMadman in

.

i found this interesting - it's the questions from readers in the may 1, 2003 watchtower.

could it be that the boys in the writing department actually had a moment of reasonableness?.

artful

NeonMadman: The reason for this article is that those on the Governing Body have recently been hearing voices in their heads, and would like to discredit those who say that Satan is trying to use them as his channel! In other words, its OK if you hear voices in your head, it's not Satan, you're just mentally ill, and therefore still qualified to dispense the 'food at the proper time'.
This is sort of like when it suddenly became OK to have a cornea transplant in 1981. It would be interesting to check the NYC hospital records for the names of GB members (or their family) who underwent eye surgery that year!
Cheers Artful (of the conspiracy theory class) ;-)

15

Is the Watchtower Sterile Seed?

by jgnat in

wt february 1

keep bearing much fruit

study march 23, 2003

artful

jgnat: Thanks for this post...great title...LOL and very true!
The box with the testimonials from old-timers which lists their current age and the year that they were baptized is very interesting. I don't have the article in front of me now, but I remember reading it when it came out and figuring out that of the 6 or 7 people quoted, the ages of baptism ranged from something like 11 years old to 15 years old. And who says, JWs don't practice infant baptism!
Cheers Artful

7

King from the North

by Cheyannesways in

prior to 1978 did the jw's use daniel 11 about the king from the north and the king from the south to imply this was signs of the great tribulation coming or signs of the end?

artful

NeonMadman: you are correct, according to the recent WTS Daniel book, they claim that 'the course of wisdom' has lead them to not attempt to identify the King of the North! I guess the Watchtower article in 1984 was not observing the 'course of wisdom' when it emphatically stated that the King of the North (clearly identified by them as USSR) and the South (USA) were then embroiled in their 'FINAL conflict'!!!! The Daniel book still refers to 'Anglo-America' as the King of the South.
Cheers Artful

28

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-23-03 WT Study

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 3-23-03 wt study

february 15, 2003, page 18.

(the reviewers comments are in black or within parentheses.

artful

Hey Blondie!
Great points here as always. Thank you for taking the time to do this every week!
I really enjoyed this point:
"What about the personal interest shown to those who are already Witnesses? Who has been sent a get-well card or been called?"
If I could, I would like to share a short story to emphasize your point.
My wife was in for surgery last summer. While she was in the hospital for three days recovering, not one elder from her hall stopped in to see her. Meanwhile, she noticed her room mate received a visit from her pastor nearly every day to check if she was in need of anything. A couple of months later, when my wife had two of the 'loving shepherds' from her hall stop in (incidentally, just before a CO visit), she explained to them that she had never received a visit or call from from any 'shepherds' in the hall during this time and yet her room mate's pastor was there frequently. The answer from one of the loving shepherds was......you're going to love this....'Well, he's paid to do that'. Priceless!!!! No apologies, no loving concern, just a questioning of the motives of the shepherd from Christendom. I think that was the beginning of the end for my wife!

This quote from them is truly amazing:
"Although the vine's branches in the illustration refer to Jesus' apostles and other Christians who are in line for a place in God's heavenly Kingdom, the illustration contains truths from which all of Christ's followers today can benefit. Hence by keeping Christ's commandments, his followers remain in union with him, and that unity, in turn, enables them to bear fruit."
More Watchtower doublespeak! In other words "You are not really one of the branches, but if you stay close to those of us who are the branches, you can still be saved".
If we read the entire illustration of the vine given at John 15, we will see that Jesus clearly stated you are either 'in union' with him (read: ARE BRANCHES attached to the vine) or not. There is no provision made for those who are not in union with Christ, but are in union with 'those who are in union with him'. This same sentiment of either being 'in union' with Christ, or in union with the flesh is echoed by Paul's writing in Romans 8. In other words, according to the scriptures in John and Romans, you are either 'One of the Branches' in union with Christ, or not.
Cheers
Artful (of the 'in union with those in union' class!)

20

Fred said: The "Captivity" of 1918

by refiners fire in

surely the most significant visible event in the history of the 20th century in terms of biblical importance was not the first world war, nor was it the remarkable acceleration in knowledge and technology, nor was it the restoration of jews to the land of israel.

the most significant event of the 20th century just has to be the events of 1918 / 1919 in the captivity and the release of jehovahs organization from babylonish enslavement.

i say this because so much biblical prophecy was fulfilled in those amazing world shaking events.

artful

RF: The quotes you posted read just like the Isaiah books...you'd love them! As Blondie mentions, almost every page has mention of the 'modern day' (1919) fulfillment. This is one of the main reasons my wife has stopped going to the BS (fitting acronym!). She couldn't stand to listen to scriptures constantly being applied to this little band of arrogant men anymore.
If you would like a copy of these books, send me an e-mail at [email protected]. I'd be more than happy to arrange to send them to you...They make for some very funny reading!
Cheers Artful

43

George Bush's excuse is good enough for me !

by searchfothetruth in

i am really excited by george bush's latest reason for bombing iraq: he's running out of patience.

for some time now i've been really pi##ed off with mr johnson, who lives a couple of doors down the street.

well, him and mr patel, who runs the health food shop.they both give me queer looks, and i'm sure mr johnson is planning something nasty for me, but so far i haven't been able to discover what.. i've been round to his place a few times to see what he's up to, but he's got everything well hidden.

artful

Interesting points here Search...I like the way the article concludes in the Observer...very Monty Python!
"Like Mr Bush, I've run out of patience, and if that's a good enough reason for the President, it's good enough for me. I'm going to give the whole street two weeks - no, 10 days - to come out in the open and hand over all aliens and interplanetary hijackers, galactic outlaws and interstellar terrorist masterminds, and if they don't hand them over nicely and say 'Thank you', I'm going to bomb the entire street to kingdom come.

It's just as sane as what George W. Bush is proposing - and, in contrast to what he's intending, my policy will destroy only one street."

Artful

8

Paradise earth, polar bears & JWs

by Brummie in

just a few thoughts on the paradise earth doctrine since this is always the issue when a jw appears:

the scripture most jws use when on service is matt 5:5 "blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth"...

i have seldom met a jw who applies this scripture to the anointed!

artful

Awesome post Brummie!
I just had a discussion about Matt 5:5 the other night as having application to those who are Christ's brothers (read: his brothers in heaven). Having used this at the doors for many years, I had no idea that the WTS made application of this scripture to the anointed!! This is a scripture that my JW brother will use to 'prove' there will be an earthly class. To which comment I wrote the following rebuttal:

Matt 5:5 which refers to the meek inheriting the earth really presents no problem with the idea of a heavenly dwelling for Christians. First of all an inheritance is something that one receives into their possession from another party. In this case the meek would possess the Earth by having it passed to them by Jesus. This statement in itself, does not mean that they have to "live on" the Earth. For instance, if one of your relatives died and left you their home, you could be said to have inherited it, or have it in your possession. However, this does not necessarily mean that you would be living in it.

Those Christians dwelling on Earth during the first century were also said to have inherited the Earth at that time. This is because they had already been "transferred into the Kingdom" (Colossians 1:13) as Christ's subjects and priests (Revelation 1:6-9). Christ had of course been granted "all authority in heaven and Earth" and had chosen such meek ones (initially his 12 disciples) to look after his Earthly subjects. So these ones had at that time been granted possession (or inherited) Christ's possessions on Earth.

Given the fact that the WTS actually applies this scripture to the anointed anyway, it would seem that it is not my thinking that needs to be adjusted to be 'in step' with Jehovah's organization (LOL), but that of the average JW that makes application of this scripture to themselves, and those they preach to!!! Thank you very much for pointing this out!

Thank you as well for pointing out that scripture in Ephesians 2:11-18 as the obvious parallel to the 'other sheep'. I was just going to look for that reference this evening (maybe you have been 'spirit-directed' to provide this food to me at the 'proper time' - LOL ;-)

Cheers
Artful

16

Are JWs The Only Ones Who Will Be Saved?

by artful in

' you will usually get the following safe response:.

"it's not for us to judge who will be saved.

jehovah reads hearts and he will decide who is worthy of salvation.".

artful

Blondie: I guess there is no hope for us then! LOL!<br>

Pistoff: They do the doublespeak on the Website that's for sure. However, as you mention, one would only realize that if they were an enlightened Dub (that's definitely an oxymoron!). You said "What happened to me now, that I can see it?" I often ask myself that same question!

Gumby: thanks for the comments, I agree 100%

Hey John: that is exactly the problem, when you point this out to them they act like caged animals - all they can think about is getting out of the conversation.

Joannadandy: thanks for taking the time to share these expressions! The attitude of "WE are saved and THEY won't be" was one of the main reasons why I left the JWs.

berylblue: Thanks for pointing out the despicable imagery in the "My Book of Bible Stories". This book was produced by a bunch of old men in Brooklyn who never had kids, and who had completely lost touch with reality. There are so many really good Bible story books at your local Christian book store, why subject your kids to this crap! After we learned that her grandparents had been reading this revolting book to our 5 year old daughter, my wife and I recently had some VERY strong words with the grandparents, and insisted that this book be removed from our daughters room before she spend the night with them again.

Cheers
Artful

46

Elders coming...i'm shaking in my boots...NOT! Any help?

by searchfothetruth in

i had a phone call last night from one of the elders asking if they can come around.

when i asked him why he said it was to discuss whether i would be interested in having a study.. this is strange as i have been baptised since i was 14 and left about 4 years ago and have had little contact with any witnesses except my parents, but, the only thing that has changed over the last few weeks is that i put together a 50 page report documenting a range of subjects including the un involvment etc and give it to my mum.

then within a week the elders want to ask my to have a study!.

artful

The Pope: I'm sure Alan will answer this better than I can, however, I'll give it a shot. The WTS explanation of the FDS is that upon the Master's Return (which occurred in 1914), he inspected his temple (1918), and then appointed the WTS as the FDS (1919). Those whom the master 'put in charge' (according to WTS doctrine) are any of the many Christian religions (read: slaves) in existence since 33CE. Therefore they sink themselves with their own interpretation. Great point BTW Alanf!!
Cheers Artful

16

Are JWs The Only Ones Who Will Be Saved?

by artful in

' you will usually get the following safe response:.

"it's not for us to judge who will be saved.

jehovah reads hearts and he will decide who is worthy of salvation.".

artful

When you ask most JWs: 'Are Jehovah's Witnesses the only ones who will be saved?' you will usually get the following safe response:
"It's not for us to judge who will be saved. Jehovah reads hearts and he will decide who is worthy of salvation."For any who have been given a similar answer by JWs, here is a list of articles which deal with the Watchtower's official position on the salvation question.

The last quote is great!
Enjoy
Artful
________

First, let's take a look at their official position regarding salvation on their Web site._______
Taken from http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htmQ: Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved? A: No . Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27.
________

Now let's have a look at what they tell their followers:________
And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah's organization for salvation. ..
-Watchtower 1981 November 15 p.21 'Stay Awake and Keep Your Senses'
Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones ... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do. -Watchtower 1981 December 1 p.27 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter
A third requirement is that we be associated with God's channel, his organization. ... Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it. -Watchtower 1983 February 15 p.12 You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth-But How?
" Only Jehovah's Witnesses , those of the annointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil."
-The Watchtower, September 1, 1989, p.19 paragraph 7.
Do not conclude that there are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God's new system. There is only one. There was just one ark that survived the Flood, not a number of boats. And there will be only one organization--God's visible organization -- that will survive the fast-approaching "great tribulation." It is simply not true that all religions lead to the same goal... You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life ...
-You Can live Forever (1982, 1990) p.255
" identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. "
-Our Kingdom Ministry, 11/1990, p. 1
"No other organization on earth enjoys an intimate relationship with the Creator. ...Clearly, those who desire to serve God can only turn to the one organization that enjoys Jehovah’s spirit and blessing. ... No other organization on earth enjoys God’s special care and protection."
-The Watchtower, 11/1/1991, pp. 30-31
"But if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy."
-The Watchtower, September 15, 1993, p. 22
"The speaker concluded: ‘Let all zealously continue to support the faithful and discreet slave . It is only by doing this that someday very soon all sheeplike ones will be able to hear the happy words: "Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom..."’"
-The Watchtower, January 15, 1993, p. 18
"Rather than expect miracles in the form of divine intervention of some sort, Jehovah’s Witnesses realize that protection is to be found in their worldwide Christian brotherhood."
-The Watchtower, December 1, 1993, p. 13
______________

In spite of all the above WTS quotes attributing salvation to their organization, they still have the nerve to council their members about guarding against idolatry!! ____________
"We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry-be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization. "
-The Watchtower, 11/1/1990, p. 26