Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-23-03 WT Study

by blondie 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • blondie
    blondie

    COMMENTS YOU WILL NOT HEAR AT THE 3-23-03 WT STUDY

    February 15, 2003, page 18

    (The reviewer’s comments are in black or within parentheses. WTS quotes are in

    red )

    "KEEP BEARING MUCH FRUIT"

    John 15:8

    John 15 (NIV)


    8 This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit,

    showing yourselves to be my disciples.

    The NWT uses "prove" which makes me feel we are on trial. It is not what we say we do, but what we actual do that matters.

    Introduction

    John 15:1-10 is partially quoted. An ellipsis is put in after "branches" and before "My Father." Let’s see what was unnecessary.

    He that remains in union with me, and I in union with him

    , this one bears much fruit; because apart from me YOU can do nothing at all . 6 If anyone does not remain in union with me , he is cast out as a branch and is dried up; and men gather those branches up and pitch them into the fire and they are burned. 7 If YOU remain in union with me and my sayings remain in YOU , ask whatever YOU wish and it will take place for YOU.

    8/15/83 WT

    p. 23 United Fruit Bearers

    Just as the anointed "branches" of the "true vine" must remain in union with Christ, the "other sheep" must remain in close union with "the faithful and discreet slave," Christ’s anointed "brothers." Only thus can they hope to ‘inherit the Kingdom prepared for them from the founding of the world.’—Matthew 25:31-40.

    Yes, only the anointed must remain close to Christ. The rest must remain close to the FDS/WTS.

    This week’s article has this disclaimer though:

    Although the vine’s branches in the illustration refer to Jesus’ apostles and other Christians who are in line for a place in God’s heavenly Kingdom, the illustration contains truths from which all of Christ’s followers today can benefit.—John 3:16; 10:16.

    Hence by keeping Christ’s (not the WTS/FDS) commandments (found in the Bible not the WT publications), his followers remain in union with him, and that unity (with Christ not the FDS), in turn, enables them to bear fruit.

    Based on your background, what do you think the fruit is that Christians must bear? You might be surprised at what the WTS thinks it is.

    ROOM FOR GROWTH

    It tells us not only that all disciples are required to bear fruit but also that all are capable of doing so, no matter what their circumstances or limitations may be.

    Translation: There is no excuse for you inactive ones out there. I can’t believe you haven’t spent one hour a month talking about Jehovah. I know you have. You just forgot to turn in your slip. And anyone with special circumstances or limitations, we can find at least 3 witnesses who are regular pioneering with the same limitations or circumstances.

    Jesus’ illustration of the vine also shows that within the limits of our circumstances we must make room for growth in our activities as a disciple.

    Toward the end of the illustration, Jesus urged his followers to bear "much fruit."

    Translation: If you put in 5 hours, try for 10; if 10, then 15, if 15, then 20, etc.

    Rather, we should look for ways (the elders will help you by telling you what you can do, not through their example) to make progress (put in more hours) in bearing fruit.

    THE FRUITAGE OF CHRISTIAN QUALITIES

    God’s holy spirit produces love within Christians (but they don’t show it).

    Jesus repeatedly reminded the apostles of the need to show the quality of love.

    Christlike love and related qualities are to be manifest among genuine disciples of Christ.

    Whatever our circumstances, manifesting the fruitage of the spirit is within our reach.

    Yet the guilt-tripping words

    To a fuller extent

    More
    fruit

    BEARING KINGDOM FRUIT

    Is there room in our life to be more fruitful, indeed to bear "much fruit," as proclaimers of God’s kingdom?

    Do you get the feeling that the WTS thinks the publishers are never doing enough?

    Now note what fruit is according to the WTS.

    Would it be correct to conclude that bearing fruit means making disciples? (Matthew 28:19)

    Does the fruit that we would bear refer primarily to individuals whom we help to become baptized worshipers of Jehovah? No.

    And how do they reason on that?

    If that were the case, the situation would be deeply discouraging for all those dear Witnesses who have been faithfully proclaiming the Kingdom message for years in less responsive territories. Why, if the Kingdom fruit that we bear is represented only by new disciples, such hardworking Witnesses would be like the barren branches in Jesus’ illustrations (of course, the branches really only represent the anointed)! Of course, that is not the case.

    So the message given here is that it is not necessary for JWs to be "effective" in their preaching. That it is not necessary to prepare beforehand by reading the publications to be featured, that it is not the JW’s fault if not one listens because they are still using the same presentation they have for the last 25 years, that it is not their responsibility that no one listens and that they don’t have to make return visits or conduct Bible studies because Jehovah will direct someone else to those sheep.

    Notice that not a single scripture was used to support this reasoning.

    FRUITFUL BY SPREADING KINGDOM SEED

    What fruit? Well, after a wheat stalk sprouts and matures, it produces as fruit, not little wheat stalks, but new seed. Likewise, a Christian produces as fruit, not necessarily new disciples, but new Kingdom seed.

    Therefore, the fruitage in this case is neither new disciples nor fine Christian qualities.

    Since the seed that is sown is the word of the Kingdom (WTS doctrine), the fruitage must be a manyfold duplication of that seed. The bearing of fruitage in this case refers to making expressions about the Kingdom.

    No matter what our circumstances may be?
    (4 th mention of circumstances in the article)

    But aren’t the little wheat stalks the new disciples? If new wheat stalks aren’t produced, how can there be new seed? Without new disciples, how will more expressions about the Kingdom be made?

    GIVING OUR BEST FOR GOD’S GLORY

    Grain sown in a field may vary in production according to circumstances. (5 th mention) Similarly, what we can do in proclaiming the good news may vary according to our circumstances (6 th mention) and Jesus (not the WTS) showed that he recognized this.

    Some may have more opportunities; others may have better health and more vigor. Thus, what we are able to do may be more or may be less than what others do, but as long as it represents our best (as judged by the elders and other "mature" ones in the congregation), Jehovah (not the elders) are pleased.

    Recently, at an assembly the guilt-making experience of Laurel Nisbet was used, the sister in the iron lung, as an example of how those with medical problems can still be fruitful.

    9/15/01 WT Jehovah’s Blessing Makes Us Rich

    Picture on page 17

    In spite of very difficult circumstances, Laurel Nisbet served God zealously

    1/22/93 Awake p. 19 Not Even an Iron Lung Could Stop Her Preaching

    You may ask, ‘What about her baptism?’ Well, there couldn’t be one. Having no ability to breathe on her own, immersion in water was impossible. She was never able to go to a Kingdom Hall. She never attended an assembly. She never saw her daughter get baptized. But she accomplished more in her service to Jehovah than many Christians who are not handicapped.

    You see, Laurel was a preacher of the good news. During her 37 year confinement, she was able to help some 17 people come to an accurate knowledge of the Bible. How did she do it? Of course, she could not go from door to door as most Witnesses have the privilege of doing. But she could witness to her many attendants.

    The message is, "your situation is not as extreme, you should be at all the meetings, all the assemblies and conventions, and have you helped seventeen people become witnesses."

    TO PREACH AND TO TEACH

    Jesus commanded his followers not only to preach the Kingdom message (but the kingdom is never mentioned in the 4 prepared for you sermons in the KM) but also to help individuals (but how is that possible when few JWs followup on placements or conversations by making return visits).

    Here is the reason; most JWs have this attitude. Why try when you know your efforts are doomed to unfruitfulness.

    Sadly, most Kingdom seed falls on unreceptive soil.

    Over 5,000 people become genuine disciples of Christ each week of the year!

    And how is that accomplished?

    Often the personal interest shown by the Witnesses—the watering of the newly sown seed as it were—made the difference.

    What about the personal interest shown to those who are already Witnesses? Who has been sent a get-well card or been called? Who has been sent a sympathy card or have many attend a visitation of a non-JW relative? Who has had you over for a snack or a meal? Who has invited you out with their family for a recreational event? Who do they hang out with, close friends and family? Have years gone by with barely a "hi, how are you" with many JWs at your hall in spite of your efforts to widen out? Maybe if they could count the time spent with you like those who aren’t baptized yet, they would show more "personal interest."

    Examples provided by the WTS:

    Noticing a woman’s hand was wrapped in bandage, a sister called back 2 days later although the woman had showed no interest. According to the sister this older woman was amazed and started studying the Bible (but there is no mention of her progressing to baptism. I know of a brother who was used on an assembly part to tell of an experience that had already ended with the man no longer studying. The brother was told to leave that part out of the experience.)

    One sister reads the birth announcements in the newspaper and then calls on the new parents with the Bible Stories book. One young mother studied and was baptized. (Interestingly, after asking why one elder had no clue that a member of his book study had lost a close family member although it was in the newspaper, his response was that he never read the newspaper! Too bad, he missed out on all these opportunities to place books. See if they can count time, personal interest will be shown.)

    Conclusion

    We can see that the WTS in interested in time spent in the ministry, not necessarily results. Sowing seed to produce more seed, without producing wheat plants would be a miracle indeed. Based on my observations, only 1 out of 10 new baptisms are those from outside JW families. Baptisms at the assemblies and conventions are young people under 18, with a few, very few exceptions.

    Yes, in the developed countries, the number coming in is dropping off. One congregation admitted that only one person had been baptized in the last 10 years that wasn’t a family member. Many JWs are apathetic and lethargic in the ministry, making non-productive return visits rather than going door to door because it is discouraging. The visiting CO of one congregation pointed out that a large number of territories had not been worked and that more attention should be paid to door to door, mentioning that at pioneer school, pioneers are encouraged to spend 50 percent of their time in the door to door ministry. But what do the rank and file see the elders doing? Spending time in door to door? Not likely.

    Keep in mind that there is no record in the Bible of how many hours, placements, Bible studies, etc., that the apostles spent in the ministry. What is recorded is how they lived their lives and tried to imitate Christ.

  • Maverick
    Maverick

    Thank you Blondie: I do look forward to your synopsis of the WatchTower! What a load of guilt riddled crap! What did they really say? Nothing but... do more! No excuses! And who buys this load of dodo? The honest hearted ones who do love Christ and are trying their best. The phoney Witnesses are fine with their own reasonings and don't care. They will pay lip service to this 'encouragement' but that's all. The GB just pile it on and load down the meek and turn their heads so as not to see the burden they put on the weary. And close their eyes so as not to see what hypocrites they and their straw bosses are! Maverick

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I especially like,

    Sowing seed to produce more seed, without producing wheat plants would be a miracle indeed.

    Perhaps by the year 2999, the WTS will have dispensed with the middleman and use robots to place literature. (I say 2999 not 3000 because everybody knows on the "third day" the world ends).

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello Blondie,

    excellent piece of work...as usual.

    I did like your reference to ' circumstances ',

    a very easy way to explain and make room for

    any situation.

    The ending part ...brilliant:

    "What is recorded is how they lived their lives

    and tried to imitate Christ."

    This is the real and true message...of life.

    Tnanks again and greetings,

    J.C.MacHislopp

  • artful
    artful

    Hey Blondie!
    Great points here as always. Thank you for taking the time to do this every week!
    I really enjoyed this point:
    "What about the personal interest shown to those who are already Witnesses? Who has been sent a get-well card or been called?"
    If I could, I would like to share a short story to emphasize your point.
    My wife was in for surgery last summer. While she was in the hospital for three days recovering, not one elder from her hall stopped in to see her. Meanwhile, she noticed her room mate received a visit from her pastor nearly every day to check if she was in need of anything. A couple of months later, when my wife had two of the 'loving shepherds' from her hall stop in (incidentally, just before a CO visit), she explained to them that she had never received a visit or call from from any 'shepherds' in the hall during this time and yet her room mate's pastor was there frequently. The answer from one of the loving shepherds was......you're going to love this....'Well, he's paid to do that'. Priceless!!!! No apologies, no loving concern, just a questioning of the motives of the shepherd from Christendom. I think that was the beginning of the end for my wife!

    This quote from them is truly amazing:
    "Although the vine's branches in the illustration refer to Jesus' apostles and other Christians who are in line for a place in God's heavenly Kingdom, the illustration contains truths from which all of Christ's followers today can benefit. Hence by keeping Christ's commandments, his followers remain in union with him, and that unity, in turn, enables them to bear fruit."
    More Watchtower doublespeak! In other words "You are not really one of the branches, but if you stay close to those of us who are the branches, you can still be saved".
    If we read the entire illustration of the vine given at John 15, we will see that Jesus clearly stated you are either 'in union' with him (read: ARE BRANCHES attached to the vine) or not. There is no provision made for those who are not in union with Christ, but are in union with 'those who are in union with him'. This same sentiment of either being 'in union' with Christ, or in union with the flesh is echoed by Paul's writing in Romans 8. In other words, according to the scriptures in John and Romans, you are either 'One of the Branches' in union with Christ, or not.
    Cheers
    Artful (of the 'in union with those in union' class!)

  • liquidsky
    liquidsky

    Thank you blondie! I always enjoy reading your comments. Its much better then sitting through a boring sunday meeting. Looking forward to next week!

  • blondie
    blondie

    Thanks, Maverick. You definitely have discerned the 2 classes of JWs

    The honest hearted ones who do love Christ and are trying their best. The phoney Witnesses are fine with their own reasonings and don't care.

    Unfortunately, there are too many of the latter and they tend to be the ones in charge. Most brothers who are elders had no idea about the intrigue, hypocrisy, and lies in the elder body until they are already elders. Then they think they can change things and try for several years. The honest, truly caring ones finally give up and step down (aside) discouraged and disillusioned. Hopefully, some find their way here. They have to see that it isn’t an isolated problem but permeates the whole organization.

    Jgnat

    , my counterpart and support. I think eventually the WTS will catch on to what other religions do and have a TV program where the "seed" is sown to thousands with each show and there can be an ending segment how to donate to the worldwide work and receive tapes and books. The WTS once used radio quite effectively until Rutherford’s anti-Catholic diatribes forced him off the air. They are videotaping the dramas now and "encouraging" all the faithful to get a copy.

    Thanks, MacHislopp. I consider "circumstances" and "limitations" to be buzzwords. They are basically disclaimers, but the WTS really means that few have these circumstances. Notice the doublespeak in this statement.

    A FEW years ago, many of us thought that only those with special circumstances could pioneer," wrote a pioneer, or full-time minister, in Japan. "It seems we were wrong. We are learning that only those with special circumstances cannot pioneer."

    Artful

    , thanks for your personal example. I’m sure every ex-JW on this board could post a similar one.
    'Well, he's paid to do that'
    . Priceless!!!! No apologies, no loving concern, just a questioning of the motives of the shepherd from Christendom.

    Jesus said we received free, give free. He didn't say we shouldn't give at all. I had an elder say that to me after comparing him to a non-JW minister. I said that at least he was doing something good. I told this elder he was in danger of being like this slave. Needless to say, it made him unhappy with me.

    Matthew

    25:24-27

    24

    "Finally the one that had received the one talent came forward and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be an exacting man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not winnow. 25 So I grew afraid and went off and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26 In reply his master said to him, ‘Wicked and sluggish slave, you knew, did you, that I reaped where I did not sow and gathered where I did not winnow? 27 Well, then, you ought to have deposited my silver monies with the bankers, and on my arrival I would be receiving what is mine with interest.

    I figure the WTS thinks the other sheep are twigs which is not in the illustration from Jesus. It is not the first time they have adapted or adjusted an illustration of Jesus. The CO in a nearby circuit gave a talk comparing the people to elephants and not sheep and he gave a talk about the worthless penny and the shiny quarter, saying the pennies aren’t worth bending over to pick up. I wonder what Jesus would say about the adjustments to his sheep illustrations and the 180 on the widow’s mite?

    Thanks liquidsky, a new commenter, welcome. Are you still planning on being at that meeting? Be careful, if so. Everyone will try to act like they are your best friend. Remember how they have treated you over the last few years. JWs talk the talk but don’t walk the walk.

    Blondie (I finally saw the light)

  • artful
    artful

    Blondie: Do you know if this interpretation of John 15:1-8 represents a change in doctrine for the WTS? I looked up this passage in the Insight book but they offer no interpretation there. Since I don't have access to a WT CD-ROM I wasn't able to find any other reference to the vine and branches illustration. I'm sure they have always taught that 'bearing fruit' meant making disciples, not distributing seed. Since I believe you have a WT CD, would you mind checking this?
    Thanks alot!
    Artful

  • blondie
    blondie

    Actually, I did research it, artful, that is how I found the 1983 WT quote. They sidestep the issue by saying it does not mean making disciples but they do not explain what it does mean. I can put up some quotes when I get home. I just wonder how many JWs know that only the anointed can be directly in union with Christ and that they are only secondary?

    Blondie

  • Victorian sky
    Victorian sky

    Blondie, Thanks - interesting. The avalanche of guilt dumped on JWs is amazing. I didn't pick up on the 'we're the extra special annointed class and the great crowd get to drink our holy bath water' mentality until I started having doubts a few years ago. So much of it sounded arrogant and smug. There is so much effort to bring people in and not enough love or personal interest to keep them. After baptism if you don't measure up few care if you're alive or dead because they've already written you off. The lack of love is staggering compaired to the claims they make. An example: When my mom was disfellowshiped she took care of my 'unbelieving' gran when she was sick, helped with meals, did housecleaning and slept over until gran got well in sharp contrast to one of my aunts (married to an elder) who didn't get around to visiting her mom for days even though she lived 5 minutes away! So there's a load of talk about love and no action to back it up.- Victorian Sky

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