Posts by artful

8

Book for Study = Book of lies

by MacHislopp in

ii - published by the wtbs inc. in the year 2001)

according to the book jehovahs witnesses in the divine purpose,

Good points Mac! Thanks for the great research. I will add this to my files!
As I mentioned earlier, I also have a WTS lie that can be found in a current Isaiah book study. It will be slightly different to what you just posted though. I will be posting something tomorrow in the Study Articles section.
Just a thought, but you may want to repost this great info in the Study Articles section as well since it will tend to get lost in the Friends area due to the large number of threads here.
Cheers Artful

21

WT Contradiction - Are the other sheep sons of God?

by artful in

many are familiar with the countless flip flops and contradictions that can be found in the wt publications of the past (for numerous examples of this see http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com).

however, in reading through the jan 15 and feb 15 wt study articles i believe i have found a "modern day" example of a wts contradictory statement.

it pertains to the status of the "other sheep" as sons of god.. __________.

artful

Hi jgnat:
According to verse 34, and according to the WTS the 'other sheep' are the ones who receive an inheritance for doing good to the 'brothers' (anointed). As far as I can tell, the WTS doesn't indicate that the sheep ARE the anointed, but rather they are the 'other sheep' who do good to the brothers - those who have already been chosen by Christ. However, they of course refer to the inheritance of 'other sheep' as being 'earthly' and the anointed as being 'heavenly'. As you pointed out from the scripture, Jesus' parable gives no indication of two different destinations or inheritances. So you are right to say that according to the WTS teaching, it could be said that there is another division between the anointed and the other sheep once the goats are dealt with.

xjw_b12: I'm sure you are right, most would not pick up on this conflict. From my own experience, I know that when I stumbled across such gems in the past, my Bible-trained (read: WT-trained) conscious would quickly steer me away from such critical thoughts! LOL regarding the writer(s). However, unless they monitor this board, I would think that they are likely not even aware of any inconsistency!

Thanks for all of your comments!
Cheers Artful

5

Are the "Other Sheep" heirs to the Kingdom?

by artful in

the watchtower of february 15, 2003 page 19, paragraph 6 under the heading "attending as respectful observers" states:.

"should those now doing good to the remnant of the 144,000 brothers of christ partake of the lord's evening meal?

according to the wts, the "other sheep" are not joint heirs.

artful

Greetings to you as well MacHislopp:
I find that the more I read the WTS publications the more amazed I am at these types of inconsistencies! I just found another example of what would appear to be an outright lie regarding their 1914 prophecy in the Isaiah book. I'll post a detail of this as soon as I have a chance.
Cheers
Artful

57

Verses that bothered you as a JW

by JH in

we find god's name "jehovah" so many times in the old testament, but not at all in the new testament.

jesus is called a "mighty god" in the bible.

jesus is also called "father".

artful

In keeping with the Memorial 'season'...and being of the 'other sheep' here's one that I could never understand.
John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."
Does anyone know if the WTS has ever explained how this scripture applies to the other sheep?
Cheers Artful

6

Vaccinations

by onacruse in

the other day i had a discussion with someone about the wts and vaccinations.

i have a strong memory that at one time vaccinations were prohibited by the wts, but when i searched the cd the earliest ref i found made it a matter of conscience:.

*** w52 12/15 764 questions from readers ***.

artful

Here are a few from the Quotes website:

Medical Quotes

Cheers
Artful

___________
*** The Golden Age, Jan 16, 1924 *** [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM] It has never been proven that a single disease is due to germs.
____________
*** The Golden Age, May 1, 1929, p. 502 *** [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM] Thinking people would rather have smallpox than vaccination, because the latter sows the seed of syphilis, cancers, escema, erysipelas, scrofula, consumption, even leprosy and many other loathsome affections. Hence the practice of vaccination is a crime, an outrage and a delusion.
_____________
*** The Golden Age, Feb 4 1931 pp. 293, 294, 297 The Sacredness of Human Blood (Reasons why vaccination is unscriptural) *** [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM] ...the vaccination law reduces the father and mother to mere slavery, almost as bad as the colored people were in, when their children were put up on the block and sold. In many slave-sale cases the mother and father were even forbidden to shed tears. Vaccination is a direct violation of the everlasting covenant that God made with Noah after the flood. [...] Vaccination has never saved a human life. It does not prevent smallpox.
_____________
*** Consolation, March 22, 1939, p. 21 *** [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM] ...the irrefutably logical fact that serums and vaccines are products of contamination...rise in cancer is attributed to the use of serums...for the best part they are but handicaps to inherent healing forces of the human body...these are by-products of pus matter...in reality and action it is worse than the proverbial "seven plagues"...One may go through life without having serious manifestations of what has been injected into his blood-stream, thus thinking he was "immunized", but, suddenly, it may begin its satanic work on his child, or even "unto third and fourth generation".

12

A Challenge for the upcoming Memorial

by joe_from_kokomo in

help prove that the wts prophecies are balderdash, hogwash and poppycock... become a partarker in your own congregation.

you deserve the notoriety.

have a sip, take a bite and become a partaker.

artful

An interesting plan, however, depending on your 'status' at the local KH, your partaking may or may not be 'counted' as legitimate. For instance, if you are disfellowshipped, disassociated, on reproof, apostate, inactive, irregular, marked, unbalanced, etc, etc. then your partaking will almost certainly not be added to the every growing 'anointed' ranks!

Artful

21

WT Contradiction - Are the other sheep sons of God?

by artful in

many are familiar with the countless flip flops and contradictions that can be found in the wt publications of the past (for numerous examples of this see http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com).

however, in reading through the jan 15 and feb 15 wt study articles i believe i have found a "modern day" example of a wts contradictory statement.

it pertains to the status of the "other sheep" as sons of god.. __________.

artful

Will Power: you're right, because these are very recent magazines it does have a bit more impact on those in the org, as they will generally expect their "current truth" to be accurate!
JeffT: it certainly seems like the WTS writers/editors are not comparing notes with each other!

jgnat: Thanks for your comments, you wrote

______

The daily bible reading last week gave a most interesting interpretation. Since the WTS has determined that only the anointed receive the inheritance, the "other sheep" don't get to participate in this momentous separation of the sheep and the goats. So the evil are judged, and the anointed the judged. So what are the "other sheep"; chopped liver?

_______

I find the interpretation (at your daily bible reading) that the "other sheep" do not receive any inheritance rather curious. The WTS clearly teaches that the "brothers" in this parable are the anointed, and those performing acts of kindness to the brothers are the "other sheep". Therefore, the separation is of the sheep (read: other sheep) and the goats (read: all non-Witnesses) with the sheep receiving an inheritance. I posted another thread on this topic at: Are the "Other Sheep" heirs to the Kingdom?

This teaching can be demonstrated by their own publications, for instance, this is on their "official" Web site:

________

http://www.watchtower.org/library/dg/article_11.htm

The sheep are humble people who associate with and support Christ's brothers, submitting to God's rule. The goats are stubborn people who reject Christ's brothers and do nothing to support God's rule. With what result? Jesus said: "These [the goats] will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones [the sheep] into everlasting life."

italics mine

_________

The interpretation of the dub who was giving your bible reading leads me to think that he had his facts wrong...which really isn't hard to do when presented with such convoluted teachings!!

You hit the nail on the head when you said that (according to the WTS) Jesus is really only concerned with the welfare of his "brothers", which is of course only around 8,800. This not only short changes his gift but is a real slap in the face!!

Cheers

Artful

21

WT Contradiction - Are the other sheep sons of God?

by artful in

many are familiar with the countless flip flops and contradictions that can be found in the wt publications of the past (for numerous examples of this see http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com).

however, in reading through the jan 15 and feb 15 wt study articles i believe i have found a "modern day" example of a wts contradictory statement.

it pertains to the status of the "other sheep" as sons of god.. __________.

artful

SS: Good point regarding the new covenant, I just spent 5 hours last night discussing that very issue with both of my parents. Incredibly, I believe I may have actually made some headway with them!

Hi plum: thanks for clarifying this new light...LOL

ThanksBlondie for adding that information about when the WTS deems that the other sheep are worthy to be declared sons of God. That's really a scriptural teaching isn't it......NOT! :-)
Cheers
Artful

21

WT Contradiction - Are the other sheep sons of God?

by artful in

many are familiar with the countless flip flops and contradictions that can be found in the wt publications of the past (for numerous examples of this see http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com).

however, in reading through the jan 15 and feb 15 wt study articles i believe i have found a "modern day" example of a wts contradictory statement.

it pertains to the status of the "other sheep" as sons of god.. __________.

artful

Thanks for the comments Truth1
I feel your pain regarding the service issue. As do my aging parents who must brave the cold in Canada to make sure they put in their "time" (it has been -10 to -25 for much of this winter!).
Cheers
Artful

5

Are the "Other Sheep" heirs to the Kingdom?

by artful in

the watchtower of february 15, 2003 page 19, paragraph 6 under the heading "attending as respectful observers" states:.

"should those now doing good to the remnant of the 144,000 brothers of christ partake of the lord's evening meal?

according to the wts, the "other sheep" are not joint heirs.

artful

Hi John! Thanks for the reply.
You're right about the contradiction issue, and I was one of the fools who did believe it - after all, it was coming from God's only "channel" LOL. Thanks for pointing to the scriptures in Galatians, they sum up the point of being sons of God very nicely. Regarding the partaking of the bread and wine, you are right, the scripture in John really states the matter very plainly:

John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

Regarding my research (comparing the statistics pertaining to the so-called signs of the times since 1914 with those of previous centuries) I just received the book that AlanF recommended, The Sign of the Last Days - When? I am starting to read through it and it contains exactly the stats I was searching for. There is an abundance of statistical information in this which demonstrates how little the 20th century differs from the past with respects to earthquakes, crime, famine, etc. - a very interesting read! (BTW, I don't receive any commission from Commentary Press for those comments..LOL)

Wishing you well
Cheers
Artful