All the JWs I knew that were tight fisted, money loving, materialistic and with questionable business/work methods did really well in life. Many of the more spiritual ones did not so I never took that supposed principle seriously as it was obviously not the case in real life.
greendawn
JoinedPosts by greendawn
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"Blessings"----Did You Believe If You Were "Bad", You'd Get No "Blessings"?
by minimus ini know a lot of witnesses that believe if something good happens----it's an indication of jehovah's blessing and if bad things continue to happen----either you're not getting jehovah's blessings or you might have demons.
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Catch Phrases Witnesses use to Keep You Controlled through Fear and Guilt
by flipper inreading steve hassan's books has brought to mind the many ways jehovah's witnesses use fear and guilt catch phrases to keep the rank and file members from leaving the cult and gaining their freedom.
see if you recognize some of these and if they produce fear or guilt.
" you have to keep up with the latest truths or you'll be left behind if you don't keep up with jehovah's organization and new light .
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greendawn
"Bringing reproach to jehovah's name", hey you are entering into conflict with someone really powerful so better desist which means do as we tell you.
The whole jehovah image that they project is calculated to be frightening and oppressive and lo and behold if you go against the FDS you are going against that severe and vindictive jehovah image. That negative god image is of course in direct conflict with the loving god projected by the gospel. The JW old testament god is far too quick to anger and thus very convenient for their manipulation strategies.
Note also how everything revolves around jehovah and not Christ. By resisting the fds you become an enemy of jehovah or by defying his wishes you incur jehovah's displeasure. But who cares, jehovah is the god of judaism not of christianity. -
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A few questions for all you experts from my long JW meeting yesterday
by AuntBee inhere are a few things that were said that seemed kind of dubious to me.
(i had a meeting with 2 women that came to the door - full story in the thread "i received the knock...").
they baptize in the name of the father, son and holy spirit.
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greendawn
The video above is great smoking gun evidence, the speaker says we can't oblige you to follow on this issue but then he goes on with several emotional arguments and the ridiculous suicide story that only a total moron would believe, to manipulate them against university education. All caught on "film"! It shows how much they value their followers intelligence.
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A few questions for all you experts from my long JW meeting yesterday
by AuntBee inhere are a few things that were said that seemed kind of dubious to me.
(i had a meeting with 2 women that came to the door - full story in the thread "i received the knock...").
they baptize in the name of the father, son and holy spirit.
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greendawn
This is all misinformation on their part. There are numerous disgruntled JWs or ex JWs who missed university education though capable of it due to FDS propaganda against higher education since at least the 1960's: if the end is so near why bother studying instead of serving jehovah?
The FDS do rigorously control the lives of their members (victims) on numerous issues even on dress code, having a beard, some sexual aspects of a married couple etc and if someone doesn't tread the line tightly is quickly marginalised or in some cases expelled from their org, especially not preaching is definitely seen as a big foul and is a fast and sure way to marginalisation.
Back in the early 1980's a lot of people were expelled from the New York Bethel by the GB precisely because they wanted to study the Bible without the JW publications. It was the great bethel apostasy incident.
If one reads the Bible and early apostolic church history one will certainly realise that the JWs are very far removed from the way the early church believed and practised.
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greendawn
If the WTS pushes the idea that their members can not associate this is something without any validity because they certainly cooperated with what they call Babylon the great ie false religion, which to them is all religion besides their own (how massively arrogant this is), in the case of Jim Swaggart whom they supported in court in order to help save some tax money. Even worse they allied themselves through Cesnur with numerous other unsavoury occultic organisations eg the Mormons, Ramtha's school of ancient wisdom and the New Agers in order to promote their common interests in Europe. Once more they showed that money is all they care about.
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How do mainstream Christians interpret the live-forever-on-Earth scriptures
by neverendingjourney inyou know the proof texts we used to "prove" that the "righteous would inherit the earth and reside for forever upon it?
" how do mainstream christians interpret those scriptures?
i gather that the scriptures in isaiah speak metaphorically to the return of the jews to the promised land, but what about psalms 37?
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greendawn
True what the JWs and others believe about the inerrancy of the Bible is simply wrong the Bible is not inerrant and harmonious just as one would expect since it was written by humans and many copies of it had to be made by scribes over the centuries and inevitably quite a few false verses were interpolated among the authentic ones to support certain beliefs or genuine mistakes were made. And when it comes to the resurrection and immortality things are very blurred and uncertain. Nonetheless I believe the fundamnental concepts of the very few surviving gospel and apostolic writings are correct even if many details are uncertain.
Going to the very expansive heaven can not be bad and as someone said it need not exclude earthly existence ie there will be a frequent flipping between the spiritual and the earthly bodies so that one can participate and enjoy the best of both worlds until perhaps over many millenia the very limited earthly realm comes to feel very monotonous and boring, who knows?
A lot of the early christian beliefs about the resurrection carried over from the old testament and other judaic scriptures made from when the OT ended and until the coming of Christ and the NT writings ie the inter-testamental period writings. They give a lot of the background to the revelation of John which contains the resurrection themes. This book barely made it into the canonical scriptures and still many view it with great suspicion and consider it to be another apocryphal jewish book.
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How do mainstream Christians interpret the live-forever-on-Earth scriptures
by neverendingjourney inyou know the proof texts we used to "prove" that the "righteous would inherit the earth and reside for forever upon it?
" how do mainstream christians interpret those scriptures?
i gather that the scriptures in isaiah speak metaphorically to the return of the jews to the promised land, but what about psalms 37?
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greendawn
The early christians understood that their destination was heaven and their time on earth as humans was only a short transient phase to be followed by death, so they were expecting to receive a spiritual rather than a physical body at the first resurrection whenever that would be.
The JWs tried to cloud the issue by creating a second class of believers as opposed to unbelievers who were destined to live for ever on earth but of course this has no biblical basis it's just one of those wild cultic, subversive beliefs one finds across all cults. There is no such thing as two classes of christians with two different destinations one going to heaven and one staying on earth.
As to what will happen to the other resurrected at the second resurrection,(those who need to get an opportunity to hear the gospel something they never got in their first life), if they prove righteous there is nothing for us to go on perhaps they will also end up in heaven as will those Jews eg Abraham, Elijah etc and perhaps others eg Job, Melchizedek, that already proved righteous before Christ came on earth.
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Those killed by Nero
by wha happened? inthere was a wt quote about the number of christians killed by nero.
these reason i bring this up is it kinda kills the 144k number.
does anyone remember the article that spoke of this?
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greendawn
Who knows, its not possible to say accurately neither how many christians were martyred in the persecutions nor how their numbers increased over time. There are no stats and other reliable info that would indirectly help us accurately answer those questions but no doubt more than 144 000 were martyred during 300 years which included ten intense persecutions by various Roman emperors.
Some historians believe that christians made up about 10% of the population in the Roman empire during the last great persecution by Diocletian and the more fanatical Galerius his eastern co-emperor. That equates to 6 million christians.
Also a lot of Christian Jews were killed by fellow Jews during the Bar Kochba (son of the star) rebellion of 132 - 135 AD, the second against the Romans to establish an independant Jewish state, because they refused to join it however by that time gentile Christians considered Jewish Christians to be heretical because they kept adhering totally to the Mosaic law. Likewise many, but not all, Christian Jews eg the Ebionites considered gentile Christians to be heretical for refusing to obey the mosaic law. To them christianity always was a reform movement within Judaism under the mosaic law.
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3,000,000 reasons JWD kicked ass
by Simon inwell, we made it past the 3 million post mark ... what a huge milestone - it makes it one of the largest discussion forums on the internet!.
a big thank you to everyone who posted on this site, shared a little bit of themselves with us or just said 'hi' along the way.. thank you for making this place rock and kick ass!.
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greendawn
Well done for such intense activity and a massive number of posts in 8 years but a shame that the forum will close towards the end of the year.
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I'm worried about dating "worldly" women at 36 this is hard!!!
by Witness 007 ini can't believe i have to date again when i seperate from my wife!
i hope i remember how.....i only ever dated my wife.
what are the rules?
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greendawn
You imagine is hard, it's not hard. You have to know why you are dating is it for a casual relationship with no strings attached or a permanent one like marriage which involves considering numerous factors?
Take things easy you may, or may not, have to date several women before you get somewhere, some you will not like as partners and equally some will not like you.
Let things like eye contact, facial expresions and outright intuition of how the mutual chemistry is going on guide you. Be confident and full of your self.
I also agree with what someone said above better rely on a paid domestic assistant to clean the house and iron clothes and a hooker for sex rather than marry with the wrong kind of woman.
Otherwise marrying with the right kind of woman is better because it involves an intimate emotional relationship and having children.