i am trying to find a good book which would explain why the bible cannot be inspired by god.. (for example, a book that would dissert the bible and illustrate its contradictions, etc.
i know there are lots of those out there, but which one did you enjoy reading?.
indoubt
Thanks for all your replies!
ThiChi: Thanks for your links. I will most definitely look at them. I am a recently "inactive" JW, and I am starting to explore different beliefs for the first time in my life. Do I believe that the bible is inspired by God? Do I believe in God? I don't even know yet. This is why I want to look at different points of view. Thanks again!
indoubt
i am trying to find a good book which would explain why the bible cannot be inspired by god.. (for example, a book that would dissert the bible and illustrate its contradictions, etc.
i know there are lots of those out there, but which one did you enjoy reading?.
indoubt
I am trying to find a good book which would explain why the bible cannot be inspired by God.
(For example, a book that would dissert the bible and illustrate its contradictions, etc.)
I know there are lots of those out there, but which one did you enjoy reading?
Thanks!
indoubt
discussing recent earthquakes, the italian journal ?ii piccolo?
in fact, during a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths.
in the italian journal il piccolo, of october 8, 1978, geo malagoli observed:.
All right, some (or most) of you may already know this, but I just found out and was unable to find a topic that was talking about it... so I decided to create one!
Everything started with this quote:
*** g77 2/22 p. 11 ?There Will Be Great Earthquakes? ***
Interestingly, for a period of 1,059 years (856 to 1914 C.E.), reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes, with 1,972,952 fatalities. But compare that with the accompanying partial list citing 43 instances of earthquakes, in which 1,579,209 persons died during just the 62 years from 1915 to 1976 C.E.
About 2 years later, we could read this:
*** w79 6/15 p. 11 Insight on the News ***
Discussing recent earthquakes, the Italian journal ?II Piccolo? observed: ?Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show. In fact, during a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths. However, if we compare this figure to the partially complete list of recent disasters, we find that 1,600,000 persons have died in only 63 years, as a result of 43 earthquakes which occurred from 1915 to 1978.?
If you compare what "Il Piccolo" said with what was quoted in the 1977 Awake, it seems pretty clear that someone is copying on the other... But who wrote this statement first? If it is the WTBS, then this does not look very good, as they would be using their own statements to give weight to their arguments. The following article gives us the answer:
*** w83 5/15 p. 6 Earthquakes?A Sign of the End? ***
In the Italian journal Il Piccolo, of October 8, 1978, Geo Malagoli observed:
?Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show. In fact, during a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths. However, [in] recent disasters, we find that 1,600,000 persons have died in only 63 years, as a result of 43 earthquakes which occurred from 1915 to 1978. This dramatic increase further goes to emphasize another accepted fact?our generation is an unfortunate one in many ways.?
So this is proof that the WTBS used this statement first (in 1977) and that the Geo Malagoli from the "Il Piccolo" newspaper used it after. Could it be a simple human error from the writing department? Maybe. If it was, I was unable to find an "errata" in any of the subsequent litterature...
The WTBS used "Il Piccolo" as a reference a total of 8 times in the following years... Here they are in chronological order:
*** w79 6/15 p. 11 Insight on the News ***
Discussing recent earthquakes, the Italian journal ?II Piccolo? observed: ?Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show. In fact, during a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths. However, if we compare this figure to the partially complete list of recent disasters, we find that 1,600,000 persons have died in only 63 years, as a result of 43 earthquakes which occurred from 1915 to 1978.?
*** g80 10/8 pp. 20-21 Do You Recognize the Meaning of What You See? ***
Has the frequency of earthquakes really increased? The Italian magazine Il Piccolo observed: ?Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show.? And then it produced figures for the past thousand years to prove it.
*** hp chap. 15 p. 148 Is ?the End of the World? Near? ***
There have been earthquakes throughout history. But how does the period since World War I compare? In Il Piccolo, Geo Malagoli observes:
?Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show. In fact, during a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths. However, [in] recent disasters, we find that 1,600,000 persons have died in only 63 years, as a result of 43 earthquakes which occurred from 1915 to 1978. This dramatic increase further goes to emphasize another accepted fact?our generation is an unfortunate one in many ways.?
*** g81 1/8 The Best Life?Soon To Come ***
?EARTHQUAKES IN ONE PLACE AFTER ANOTHER??Matt. 24:7
"During a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths. However . . . we find that 1,600,000 persons have died in only 63 years, as a result of 43 earthquakes which occurred from 1915 to 1978. . . . Our generation is an unfortunate one.??Italian journal ?Il Piccolo? (1978).
*** kc chap. 12 p. 113 The ?Last Days? and the Kingdom ***
Also, ?earthquakes? are included as part of the ?sign.? An upsurge in earthquakes since 1914? This may sound surprising. But the statistics are even more surprising! As Geo Malagoli commented in Il Piccolo: ?During a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes.? His figures show that during those years an average of 1,800 persons died each year in earthquakes, whereas there have been 43 major earthquakes since 1915, and these have killed an average of 25,300 persons a year.
*** g82 4/8 What Can Jesus Mean to You Now? ***
?Earthquakes in one place after another.? (Matthew 24:7) Before 1914, an estimated 1,800 persons a year died in earthquakes. Since 1914 the yearly average is 25,300.?Geo Malagoli, in Il Piccolo.
*** w83 5/15 p. 6 Earthquakes?A Sign of the End? ***
In the Italian journal Il Piccolo, of October 8, 1978, Geo Malagoli observed:
?Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show. In fact, during a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths. However, [in] recent disasters, we find that 1,600,000 persons have died in only 63 years, as a result of 43 earthquakes which occurred from 1915 to 1978. This dramatic increase further goes to emphasize another accepted fact?our generation is an unfortunate one in many ways.?
*** ce chap. 18 p. 225 The Bible?Is It Really Inspired by God? ***
The Italian journal Il Piccolo reported: ?Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show.?21 On the average, about ten times as many have died each year from earthquakes since 1914 as in previous centuries.
What do you guys think?
indoubt
i have to say upfront that i am not sure about anything at this point of my life (i.e.
but i am trying to believe that there is a god, and that he is loving and cares about us...
i saw horrific pictures the other day about the floods that just occurred in dominican republic.
I have to say upfront that I am not sure about anything at this point of my life (i.e.: Evolution/Creation, etc)...
But I am trying to believe that there is a god, and that he is loving and cares about us...
I saw horrific pictures the other day about the floods that just occurred in Dominican Republic.
One of the dilemmas I am facing is regarding how god took care of the people during Noah's days. Let me explain:
We all know what the bible says about the flood: Noah had to build an ark and warn people about the upcoming flood.
The estimated population of the earth at this time is ranging between 25,000,000 and 9,000,000,000. According to experts, 3 billions is a safe number (see http://www.ldolphin.org/popul.html ). Obviously, Noah was unable to reach every single person. According to the bible, only 8 persons survived.
So if there is a god, and if he is loving and just, this would mean that only 8 persons out of about 3,000,000,000 were worth saving! What about all those poor kids that had to die drowning?
Does anyone have a theory or an explanation on this?
Thanks!
indoubt
granted, there are some "young" anointed, who are supposedly replacing older anointed who "have fallen out of the truth".. but very soon, this "switch game" won't be working anymore... the number will keep decreasing and the amount of "replacements" will diminish as well, until there are none left.. i am sure that others have made similar remarks, but if we say that a 10 years old was anointed in 1935 (deadline for being anointed), that would mean that this person is now 79 years old today.
let's do some maths and be conservative: let's say 80% (6852 anointed) are the original ones (anointed on 1935 or before) and that they were all anointed on 1935 at 10 years old.. now the other 20% (1713) are "replacements" anointed (took the place of an original because he/she has fallen).
those persons must have some kind of spiritual maturity, so let's assume this group has an average of 30 years old.. combined average age = 69 years old.
Ozzie,
I Agree .
A typical JW would say that Jesus - a perfect man - chose Judas; also they would say that this is a proof that we have free will and that God does not control our destiny...
indoubt
granted, there are some "young" anointed, who are supposedly replacing older anointed who "have fallen out of the truth".. but very soon, this "switch game" won't be working anymore... the number will keep decreasing and the amount of "replacements" will diminish as well, until there are none left.. i am sure that others have made similar remarks, but if we say that a 10 years old was anointed in 1935 (deadline for being anointed), that would mean that this person is now 79 years old today.
let's do some maths and be conservative: let's say 80% (6852 anointed) are the original ones (anointed on 1935 or before) and that they were all anointed on 1935 at 10 years old.. now the other 20% (1713) are "replacements" anointed (took the place of an original because he/she has fallen).
those persons must have some kind of spiritual maturity, so let's assume this group has an average of 30 years old.. combined average age = 69 years old.
Ozzie,
Then we see that 20% were "unfaithful", right?? That sure looks like a high failure rate to me.
I don't know if 20% is accurate, but I thought it would be a "safe" percentage... maybe the percentage is less; in this case, the age average would even be greater!
indoubt
granted, there are some "young" anointed, who are supposedly replacing older anointed who "have fallen out of the truth".. but very soon, this "switch game" won't be working anymore... the number will keep decreasing and the amount of "replacements" will diminish as well, until there are none left.. i am sure that others have made similar remarks, but if we say that a 10 years old was anointed in 1935 (deadline for being anointed), that would mean that this person is now 79 years old today.
let's do some maths and be conservative: let's say 80% (6852 anointed) are the original ones (anointed on 1935 or before) and that they were all anointed on 1935 at 10 years old.. now the other 20% (1713) are "replacements" anointed (took the place of an original because he/she has fallen).
those persons must have some kind of spiritual maturity, so let's assume this group has an average of 30 years old.. combined average age = 69 years old.
Granted, there are some "young" anointed, who are supposedly replacing older anointed who "have fallen out of the truth".
But very soon, this "switch game" won't be working anymore... the number will keep decreasing and the amount of "replacements" will diminish as well, until there are none left.
I am sure that others have made similar remarks, but if we say that a 10 years old was anointed in 1935 (deadline for being anointed), that would mean that this person is now 79 years old today.
Let's do some maths and be conservative: let's say 80% (6852 anointed) are the original ones (anointed on 1935 or before) and that they were all anointed on 1935 at 10 years old.
Now the other 20% (1713) are "replacements" anointed (took the place of an original because he/she has fallen). Those persons must have some kind of spiritual maturity, so let's assume this group has an average of 30 years old.
Combined Average Age = 69 years old
So what will happen then? Will we have a "New Light" from the last anointed GB member, which will mention that from now on non-anointed can govern as well??
Or is there already a "New Light" that I have missed?
What do you think?
indoubt
as we all know, 1914 has been a pivotal date for the jw (although its meaning has changed with the time).. the oldest "calculation" to get to 1914 that i could find comes from thy kingdom come (copyright 1891) (1910 edition -- studies in the scriptures, vol.
3) p.342 (thanks to quotes.watchtower.ca):so, then, if we measure backward down the "first ascending passage" to its junction with the "entrance passage," we shall have a fixed date to mark upon the downward passage.
this measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year b.c.
Thanks blondie! This is exactly what I was looking for.
as we all know, 1914 has been a pivotal date for the jw (although its meaning has changed with the time).. the oldest "calculation" to get to 1914 that i could find comes from thy kingdom come (copyright 1891) (1910 edition -- studies in the scriptures, vol.
3) p.342 (thanks to quotes.watchtower.ca):so, then, if we measure backward down the "first ascending passage" to its junction with the "entrance passage," we shall have a fixed date to mark upon the downward passage.
this measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year b.c.
Hello all,
As we all know, 1914 has been a pivotal date for the JW (although its meaning has changed with the time).
The oldest "calculation" to get to 1914 that I could find comes from Thy Kingdom Come (copyright 1891) (1910 edition -- Studies In The Scriptures, vol. 3) p.342 (thanks to quotes.watchtower.ca):
So, then, if we measure backward down the "First Ascending Passage" to its junction with the "Entrance Passage," we shall have a fixed date to mark upon the downward passage. This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year B.C. 1542, as the date at that point. Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage" from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit," representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years from the above date, B.C. 1542. This calculation shows AD. 1915 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble; for 1542 years B.C. plus 1915 years AD. equals 3457 years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation -- no, nor ever shall be afterward. And thus it will be noted that this "Witness" fully corroborates the' Bible testimony on this subject...
What I am wondering is: when did they start interpreting 1914 using 606/607 and the 2520 years?
Thanks!
indoubt
ok, who remembers all those long prayers?
especially at the district conventions!.
we had our convetions at a small hockey arena and the stairs were really steep.
I always found the long prayers inconsiderate, especially for parents with young kids.
Even at a young age my kids knew that the prayer at the end of a day was the last "step" before the convention was over.
After 3-4 long and grueling days of sitting in a over-heated arena, you can imagine that an 8 minutes prayer was way too much for them, and for us!! They would usually start crying at the 3rd or 4th minute. At that point, I was letting them cry as much as they wanted, even hoping they started crying louder...
indoubt
