Posts by dan

58

The resurrection of the flesh of Jesus Christ

by hooberus in

the church has traditionally held to the resurrection of the flesh of jesus christ:.

ignatius (who according to ancient sources was a disciple of the apostle john).

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/anf-01/anf01-21.htm .

dan

Hooberus, God has changed the rules in the past and He still has that right. For the most part revelation will not refute past revelation, but it does not hold true always. God said in Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill" but twelve chapters later He commands (through His prophet) "slay every man his brother, and every man his companion". In Leviticus certain women are ordered to be killed. You have to know if a prophet is a true prophet or not before you can whether to follow orders that contradict scripture. How can you tell? The Bible says that his fruits will testify of the actuality of his calling. There is no other criteria for measuring a prophet sanctioned in the Bible.

Interpretation of scripture is also another factor that enters into this equation. Arguments can be solidly made for and against almost any interpretation of scripture; nonetheless, I will not use a prophet as a trump card here. You are free to open discussion.

108

Ressurection question

by Sookie in

i'm hoping someone can help me out.

based upon the belief that death acquits a person of sin, do jws believe that all those (jws and non-jws) who die before armageddon arrives will be ressurected?

just for my reference, can someone show me where this can be found in the bible?

dan

Y'see, that's the thing: I'm not making assumptions. I know these things are true. They were received by revelation, not councils and philosophy. The people I was refering to make assumptions based on pre-conceived doctrines that they have to substantiate. I don't have to reconcile the Bible with my doctrine, because my doctrine is from this dispensation, not the Bible's. Imagine Abraham walking around with a set of scriptures from a thousand years before his time. Now imagine some guy wants to push his democracy theory with Abraham. Abe says, "No, that's just an assumption based on old scriptures. The truth is God will organize His house into twelve tribes." That guy is gonna flip out and say Abraham is also making an assumption; but we all know he's not, because he was a prophet. God told him He was going to do that. It's the same thing today. I say that these ideas are all inferences and assumptions, and you shriek "hypocrite!" But I claim to follow a prophet, and continued revelation far outweighs ancient scripture (if it is what it purports to be). If you want to argue, argue that our authority is not real, but stay away from the semantics, cuz you're just wrong.

And if you would like to see just how seriously I take my Bible you are going to be seriously outmatched.

101

Atheist/Agnostics..you'r e in good company

by badwillie in

famous people who were also atheists:.

simon bolivar, revolutionary of venezuela.

abraham lincoln, president.

dan

How do you "know" that I do not have evidence. My salt analogy was to show you that it isn't always possible to transmit understanding through language. I KNOW, just as well as you know you exist, that God exists. You can not believe all you want, but once you tell me I "can't know" you overstep the boundaries you have drawn around your mind. I kow He exists. I can't explain to you how any more than you can explain the taste of salt. It's not one of the five sense, but it is very, very real, and you will never feel it if you keep thinking that way.

"Your mind and a parachute are both absolutely useless if not open."

54

Do you believe in God or Jesus ???

by run dont walk in

personally, i could care less about god and/or jesus, have no use for either of them, very disappointed in how they run things.

and when i die, i hope i get the chance to tell him/them that.. there was a great song in the late 80's early 90's by depeche mode called blasphemous rumours(spelling ?

) "i don't want to start any blasphemous rumours, but i think that god has a sick sense of humour, and when i die i expect to find him laughing.".

dan

frankiespeakin', nor is there evidence that He doesn't exist. Try as you might, the only thing that human intelligence will ever prove is that it isn't smart enough to figure it out. Luckily, I don't need physical evidence; I've received a testimony from the Holy Ghost, and I know He lives.

54

Do you believe in God or Jesus ???

by run dont walk in

personally, i could care less about god and/or jesus, have no use for either of them, very disappointed in how they run things.

and when i die, i hope i get the chance to tell him/them that.. there was a great song in the late 80's early 90's by depeche mode called blasphemous rumours(spelling ?

) "i don't want to start any blasphemous rumours, but i think that god has a sick sense of humour, and when i die i expect to find him laughing.".

dan

Y'know, it's funny how people talk about how much they disagree with God's will. He's our Father in heaven, and we might better understand Him if we remember that when we were kids we never understood our parents; but that didn't make them wrong. A lot of times "because I said so," was valid because the motivation for the decision was too far beyond us. It's funny to see people judge God and make absolute statements about reality when we are not even infants on the universal scale. It's like a new born chewing out his parents. It's just makes you look ridiculous.

101

Atheist/Agnostics..you'r e in good company

by badwillie in

famous people who were also atheists:.

simon bolivar, revolutionary of venezuela.

abraham lincoln, president.

dan

"So is your point that god is subjective... he only exists in the minds of those who believe in him? I would heartily agree with that."

No, that's not my point at all. My point is that you have no right (as a skeptic) to tell me in such absolute statements that I am unequivically mistaken. You make no claims at knowledge, so you really have no leg to stand on whatsoever as to the truthfulness of my knowledge. If you want to doubt the existence of God, that's your prerogative; but if someone comes by and say, "I know he exists." don't just tell him he's wrong, because your argument is, "I don't know," to begin with. Tell him you aren't so sure about it and let him feel like you respect his intelligence. You are the one saying, "I'm not sure," anyway.

108

Ressurection question

by Sookie in

i'm hoping someone can help me out.

based upon the belief that death acquits a person of sin, do jws believe that all those (jws and non-jws) who die before armageddon arrives will be ressurected?

just for my reference, can someone show me where this can be found in the bible?

dan

I would believe the person that has the spirit, regardless of his title.

It's sad that a bishop would put a ten year old scientific study in front of a testimony borne by the spirit that he had claimed for years to have received. If science can sway him then he must have been lying about the spirit confirming his faith. No wonder the Lord is testing him.

58

The resurrection of the flesh of Jesus Christ

by hooberus in

the church has traditionally held to the resurrection of the flesh of jesus christ:.

ignatius (who according to ancient sources was a disciple of the apostle john).

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/anf-01/anf01-21.htm .

dan

Hooberus, I believe it was Christ that condemned the Scribes and Pharisees for putting scripture before prophets. The Sadducees, Samaritans, Herodians and Zealots also made that error. IF there is a living prophet on the earth, his word outweighs ancient scripture. That is biblical. I use the KJV; and although I know there to be errors, I will accept any scripture you produce from it as binding, as long as the interpretation is logical. I will, however, produce the Hebrew and Greek denotations where appilcable.

I believe the Spirit teaches us the truth. My church building has a room we use for a class called institute; and in front, in huge letters, there's a big sign that says, "FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF." If you have an idea that is different, pray to God and look for an assurance that you are right. We ask that no one blindly follow the prophet, but that everyone find out for themselves. I will consider your interpretations as thoroughly as I do the prophets', so don't worry about that.

Deputy dog, I have no burden of proof. You have not shown me a scripture, so I am not bound to show you one. The matter rests on who has the right to interpret and who doesn't; and I didn't say it didn't support it, I said the Bible did not confine me. The Bible is not comprehensive enough to form or run any church, so assumptions and inferences have to be made; or you just have to have a prophet. I prefer a prophet to a guessing game. You obviously prefer human reasoning to revelation. Provocative. The ball's in your court now.

I accept the terms, by the way.

108

Ressurection question

by Sookie in

i'm hoping someone can help me out.

based upon the belief that death acquits a person of sin, do jws believe that all those (jws and non-jws) who die before armageddon arrives will be ressurected?

just for my reference, can someone show me where this can be found in the bible?

dan

Deput, the only studies that can be interpreted that way are twenty year old studies that come to this conclusion, "We don't know." You have decided to make "FALSE!!!!" the default conclusion. RECENT studies have shown to corroborate all of the claims that the Book of Mormon states. I'll be more than happy to share those references with you tomorrow.

Y'know, I heard a dean of a community college tell me that Elvis was still alive, but his title didn't make him omniscient any more than my glasses make I smart.

Barry that's pretty cool. They are the best choir in the world.

58

The resurrection of the flesh of Jesus Christ

by hooberus in

the church has traditionally held to the resurrection of the flesh of jesus christ:.

ignatius (who according to ancient sources was a disciple of the apostle john).

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/anf-01/anf01-21.htm .

dan

deputy dog, if you think you can prove me wrong you are welcome to try.

Which is exactly my point. You can't find a scripture that says he does NOT have a body any more than you can find one that says he is a bird with feathers.

You're right in that my understanding is not chained down to 1590 pages of scripture. No people in the Bible ever survived spiritually solely on ancient scripture, and I don't see any reason to start now; and if you'd like to test my understanding of the scriptures you are more than welcome.

OK Hooberus, use the scriptures to make your points and I'll answer with scripture. You can go first.