Posts by ezekiel3

60

God and the Concept of Time

by ezekiel3 in

put your waders on, we?re going in the deep end?.

jw premise: god created jesus, and then together they created everything else.. fact: time and space require at least two points to exist.

you cannot reference time or space with only one thing.. so before god created jesus, there was no way to measure time.

In Disney World there is a great ride called Indy Speedway, I loved it as a kid. You get to drive these little cars, you can even steer and control the speed. The catch is that your car is on a track and you can only go forward. But that did'nt matter, I had a great time.

In essense you would call this free-will:

If you enjoyed your purpose, saw that it was most excellent regardless of adversity, why would you want to turn.

And let's be intellectually honest here, this is not a choice:

You have free will to choose a different purpose, you also know the consequences of that choice, death.

Now that I'm all growed up (just a nod to the grammer police), I get into a car I choose, and choose which direction to drive in. I choose what speed to drive. I choose the route to get there. I choose whether or not I will obey the posted speed limits. I also accept the consequences of my choices.

But here is the crux, and I hope you understand this: If God knows the future, then all my "choices" are not choices at all, but merely successive events leading to a end point. From my human viewpoint, it may seem like I'm in control - but I'm not. You say:

God has a perfect place for fellowship with His children in paradise. Will you chose to be with Him.

This sounds like the end point, "a perfect place...in paradise". But how is God's tactics any different than a mugging? If a someone held a gun to your head and demanded your money, would you have a choice but to give over the money? At that point the mugger, not you, effectively controls your destiny.

But if someone, like a beggar, asks for money (no gun of course) you can choose to give the money or not. The only difference between the mugger and the beggar is threat.

The fact is that, according to your belief, billions of people, the majority of mankind are choosing not to be with God. This is also the pattern of Bible history: Flood survivors=8, Sodom survivors=3.

God knew/knows in advance that the great majority of the human population will have to die for God's will to happen. If you want to rejoice that God won't kill you if you do what God says, be my guest ... and study up on Stockholm syndrome.

22

The concept of sin?

by El blanko in

ok, here is one that jabs into my mind occasionally.

the concept of 'sin' and the fallen state of man is rather profound and used to blow my mind, especially when paul broke down the concept when writing about the struggle with the fleshly state.

i could relate to those words and it was originally one of the main reasons i moved towards the scriptures (that, and the carrot of living forever of course

ezekiel3

I wonder if even Jesus accepted the concept of sin. He freely forgave sin before he died. He associated with "sinners." He condoned sinning, what was that about "throwing the first stone?" Hmmm...

95

What grammatical errors bug you the most?

by poppers in

jw
friends

for me it's the use of : .

it's as a possessive - it's means "it is", so if you don't want to say "it is" don't use the apostrophe.

there are others that bug me but this one is the worst.

ezekiel3

I must be dealing with either the most clueless people on this earth, or just plain idiots.

I'll volunter fer both. One thing I like to do is, when Im at an friends house, is to go in to there Word program under Tools and than AutoCorrect and mess with the options. Like when they type a word right like JEHOVAH than it'll chnage it to SATAN, and than its gonna make em think that the demons are in there computer and stuff.But its like that if they now that, than the'll think their is'nt no way they could be getting a demon attack becuase they didn't see Lord of the Rings or anything. But you got to axe Jehover for help by keeping calling on his Name. The bestest one I heared is where this JW goes 'I totaly throwed away all my kids Disney books cuase they were spritistic, and then they stopped havin night mares"! whatever you completly anul peeple.

24

letter from mom/letter to mom

by MerryMagdalene in

if anybody feels up to wading through what follows and giving me any feedback on it, i would really appreciate it, but, if not, that's cool too.... letter from mom (9/29/04):.

my dear one,.

i guess you know no one on earth is as dear to me as you.

ezekiel3

Merry:

Thank you for sharing your letters. At least your mother is sincere with her feelings and hasn't completely emotional shutdown towards you.

Your letter is so beautiful when you discribe your feeling about motherhood. And good for you about home schooling!!!! I wonder how many parents would do that if they could?

The "apostate" section of your letter will translate in big red letters "DO NOT READ THIS." You know your mother, but I would recommend a brief single subject and mention why it made you dismiss the "Truth." Preaching to JW will usually raise "the wall."

Your mother's letter to you is sincere, but lathered in guilt. I'm sure you had a hard time reading it, I did. It tugged at every one of my JW programmed heart-strings. She writes:

You have a precious little one who needs to learn about our great God & his beautiful, unchanging purpose.

This is the core of her letter. She is freaked because she doesn't want her granddaughter to be killed by Jehovah. Warning: if you stand in her way, she will blame you for this. In her mind, its not Jehovah killing her at Armeggedon, its you killing her. That's a harsh statement and a dangerous truth. When your daughter is with grandma, she will do everything she can to indoctrinate her, regardless of your wishes. (I know you know this, I just wanted to acknowledge your resolution.)

Put that "guilt ball" back in her court. Ask her if she's willing to gamble the rest of her life and relationship with her granddaughter on an ever-changing religion that calls itself "Truth"?. Ask her what WT ever said you can't visit grandchildren at a disfellowshipped parent's home? Ask her why she is willing to disfellowship her own grandchild?

Ohhh, I'm getting mad...

5

If Only the WTS Trained JWs Like Dogs

by ezekiel3 in

from the 8 sep 2004 awake!

how to train your dog.

(inset on page 24).

ezekiel3

I was in the process of reading your letter to your mother (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/18/77883/1.ashx), when I had to break away to add "If your JW repeats..."

Forgive me if I make light of such a horrible policy, what else can we do?

7

Where do we go for .....?

by RR in

back in the old days, one could go down to 360 furman street and pick up wt literature, at a price.

then when it went to "donation" basis, you could still pick up literature, but you were limited.

i remember picking up the cd rom at the "book store".

ezekiel3

To clarify about the convention releases:

There is no requirement to present a Blood Card at this time. They are looking for a delegate badge though...

5

If Only the WTS Trained JWs Like Dogs

by ezekiel3 in

from the 8 sep 2004 awake!

how to train your dog.

(inset on page 24).

ezekiel3

From the 8 Sep 2004 Awake! How to Train Your Dog. (Inset on page 24)

Tips for Training a Dog

Be consistant in your use of words for commands.
Dogs like to hear their name, and it get their attention. So use your dog's name along with commands. ("Rover, sit!") But do not use your dog's name in conjunction with a reprimand, such as "No!" Your dog must learn that responding to its name brings positive - not negative - results.
Use liberal praise as a reward. Many dogs will do more for affection than for food.
Keep training sessions short and pleasurable.
Do not inadvertently reinforce negative behavior by giving your dog a lot of attention when it misbehaves. This will only result in a repetition of the undesired behavior.

And now for something completely different:

Tips for Training a JW

Change the commands, but use the same words ("New light!").
Call each other "brother" or "sister", or better yet, just call everyone "brothers. ("Brothers, may I have your attention please!") But when reprimanding your JW, annouce that person's name during the Announcements.
Use shepherding calls as a tool to figure out if your JW is apostate. JWs who don't eat spiritual food at the meetings won't need affection.
Have long boring meetings 5 times a week that review even longer conventions and assemblies that cover subjects already written in the publications.
Only pay attention to negative behavior and reinforce the behavior of your JW by insisting on a detailed confession of every sordid act in committee meetings. Make sure everyone in the congregation knows who is in the back room so they can figure out what your JW did during the next "Local Needs" talk. If your JW repeats undesired behavior, do not speak to or feed your JW, until the undesired behavior stops. Only speak to your JW if it keeps coming to you for about 9 months, but do not praise your JW for doing this by applauding.

16

AWAKE! says JWs are "mentally ill" September 8,2004

by apocalypse in

that's right folks.

the awake september 8,2004 on page 21 has a box.

some warning signs of mental disorders

ezekiel3

Don't forget the footnote to this paragraph in the article (Awake! 8 Sep 2004, pg 21): Red text mine.

Persue treatment. Despite the long-term nature of some mental disorders, with appropriate (only WTS would insert "appropriate") treatment many sufferers can have stable, productive lives. Unfortunately, many languish for years without getting help (because they went to the elders like you told them to). Just as a serious heart condition requires a heart specialist, mental illness need the attention of those who know how to treat such conditions. Psychiatrists, for example, can prescribe medicine that when taken consistantly can help control mood, ease anxiety, and straighten out distorted thinking patterns.* (No mention of psycologists or counselors, eh?)

*Potenial benefits should be considered along with possible side effects. Awake! does not endorse any paticular medical treatment. Christains should be sure that any treatment they persue does not conflict with Bible principles.

Because JWs have been warned about of psycology and counseling (mental health or marriage), they are going in hordes to the druggist for their prescription medication (PM). Most JWs I know who are on meds do not have chronic mental illness (bi-polar, schizophrenia). But they will not treat the cause of their illness with psycology or counseling.

Any mental health professional who wants to cure a JW with mental illness is going to look long and hard at their conception of reality and the impact of their social dynamic. "Possible side effects" include pricking the JW bubble with the needle of logical thinking. Even realizing that "The Truth" is part of the stress will send a JW running for a refill.

The only place many JWs are finding spiritual paradise is underneath a child-proof cap.

60

God and the Concept of Time

by ezekiel3 in

put your waders on, we?re going in the deep end?.

jw premise: god created jesus, and then together they created everything else.. fact: time and space require at least two points to exist.

you cannot reference time or space with only one thing.. so before god created jesus, there was no way to measure time.

ezekiel3

By the way, for all you interested in the concept of time, and I pondered this all weekend...

I know I have simplified "time" inaccurately with the aim of establishing the concept that God knows all from beginning to end.

I stated in my opening comments that we are comparable to a 2-dimensional painting and God is like a 3-dimensional human. To further define this: we are trapped in the present. God is not. God created the beginning and has a purpose and/or has forordained the end. God has proven by prophecy that he can pinpoint events that have not happened yet.

Oh, but you say that time is just a ruler that we hold up to our history. You are correct! But apparently, like a measuring tape that unrolls, God knows events that have not unrolled out yet. How can he do this? Thank you zoolander:..

In the 2 x a = b kinda world it is possible to predict ?b? when we or God knows the value of ?a?. Something is foreordained if God or us knowingly inserts the value of ?a? or even ?b?.

Oh no! I can't believe in a God that makes me into a robot, my ego won't let me!

Please people, leave your ego and predestination behind. This God I keep mentioning was created by us. I completely respect the ideal of a God who is not in control of our destinies. But as soon as you introduce a meddling God who destroys humans and the planet around them everytime they don't do want God wants (witness Eden, Noah's Flood, Sodom, and, coming soon to your neighborhood, Armegeddon), you lose your ego. Ergo Christains are robots.

60

God and the Concept of Time

by ezekiel3 in

put your waders on, we?re going in the deep end?.

jw premise: god created jesus, and then together they created everything else.. fact: time and space require at least two points to exist.

you cannot reference time or space with only one thing.. so before god created jesus, there was no way to measure time.

ezekiel3

Myelaine:

Thank you for your contribution. I had to read your posts carefully to understand them. So if I make wrong assumptions please forgive me. I understand that you believe in God and Christ, even as part of the Trinity, and that humans have free will. But your comments seem to contradict each other. Please explain:

He will have infinite foreknowledge on that day as well because He knows how it all ends... we only get a glimpse of what's happening next in our "life" with God.

Without His intervention, according to his Wisdom, mankind could and would destroy themselves.

Intervention is a powerful word. If God changed or intervened world events, how can man also make independant choices?? According to your logic humans will destroy themselves unless God steps in and overides their choice to do so.

God created man and therefore He initiated time but we set it in motion for us the moment God created us.

I'm afraid that the "measurement of time" (a more accurate term than just "time") existed long before any human appeared on Earth. Any intellegent life (including God and angels) would be able to use time as a tool.

With God (Pride in God,as your Father) and His purpose for your life in front of you, your ability to see where you are going will be greatly increased.

Do you realize that be saying this you betray "free-will?" You seem to say, "God has a purpose, a destination. When you understand God you will know where you will end up."

So if I don't understand God then I don't get to choose:

To live forever in a paradise earth
To live in heaven as an angel
To not go to hell as a sinner
Or whatever other devine reward you may believe in?

Another way to look at this is, if I understand God's purpose for my life and do not want that purpose, can I choose to live for another purpose? Don't forget to read my favorite chapter in the Bible, Ezekiel 3 (vs 17-21) before you answer that.

A basic Christain dogma is if you don't follow God's purpose you will die or go to hell. THAT IS NOT FREE-WILL, it is the most expensive choice you can make, IT WILL COST YOU YOUR LIFE.