i wrote this thinking that maybe some of our new folks would enjoy it, but i think i may have given the posting a bad or misleading subject line, because it has been little read and not commented on at all.
tell me how much the story sucks, and why it sucks as much as it does.
si vous plait.
The question was asked, with the answer provided: "Who's buried under a cross and crown? A mason."
While I disagree with the answer to the question, Charles Taze Russell was not buried under a "cross and crown."
Nevertheless, the "cross and crown" symbol is not exclusive to the Masons. There are those who go so far as to claim that the Bible has been corrupted by the Masons, since the Bible uses similar symbology to the Masons.
i wrote this thinking that maybe some of our new folks would enjoy it, but i think i may have given the posting a bad or misleading subject line, because it has been little read and not commented on at all.
tell me how much the story sucks, and why it sucks as much as it does.
si vous plait.
I received a Google Alerts because someone posted to this thread. I was not aware that it was here.
The pyramid monument is not Russell's; Rutherford had it constructed a few years after Russell died. It was claimed that Russell had desired for such a monument to be built, but I have never seen any written instructions that show Russell had thought that such a pyramid should have been built.
As to the assertion that Russell was a Mason, the tens of thousands of pages that have produced from his work bear overwhelming testimony that he was not a Mason. The symbols that he used were not Masonic, despite the imaginative assumptions that they were.
in george orwell's novel 'nineteen eighty-four' the capitulation of the principal protagonist is portrayed in his willingness to assent to the proposition that two and two make five.
once he had denied objective reality, his mental conquest was complete and he was no longer truly the master of his own mind.
nineteen eighty-four is in many ways, a very depressing read.. a charge commonly leveled at jehovah's witnesses is that the type of mind control envisioned by orwell has been and continues to be used on them.
We see no reason for changing the figures--
nor could we change them if we would. They
are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But
bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the
date for the beginning, but for the end of the
time of trouble. We see no reason for changing
from our opinion expressed in the View
presented in the WATCH TOWER of Jan. 15, '92.
We advise that it be read again. -- WT July 15, 1894
This was written in 1892 (about 12 years before 1904) because there were those Bible Students who disagreed with Russell concerning the "time of trouble" as ending in 1914. In other words, there were those Bible Students who were claiming that the "time of trouble" was to begin, not end, in 1914. In 1894, Russell saw no reason to change his view on this, but in 1904 (about ten years before 1914), he did change his view and accepted what some of his associates had claimed, that the time of trouble was to begin, not end, in 1914. The reason for this had to do with several scriptural lines of reasoning, the main being that the prophecies indicate that when the times of the gentiles end is when Jesus was begin exerting his power amongst the nations, and the nations would be come angry, bringing the "time of trouble." Please note that Russell gave his views, not as though heading a controlling organization as the JWs, for as can be seen from the pages of the Watch Tower in those days, there were many different views, and Russell, although not agreeing with those views, admitted the possibility that he could be wrong.
I have been collecting a lot information on Russell and 1914 that might be helpful to sort out some of this:
in george orwell's novel 'nineteen eighty-four' the capitulation of the principal protagonist is portrayed in his willingness to assent to the proposition that two and two make five.
once he had denied objective reality, his mental conquest was complete and he was no longer truly the master of his own mind.
nineteen eighty-four is in many ways, a very depressing read.. a charge commonly leveled at jehovah's witnesses is that the type of mind control envisioned by orwell has been and continues to be used on them.
alice.in.wonderland: This was stated because of the second coming of Christ as taught by Christendom. Seventh-day Adventists were expecting Jesus coming to be literal, personal and visible in 1881.
The above appears to be confusing the Seventh-Day Adventists with some of the factions of Second Adventists. Russell did accept the date 1881 (seven year period after 1874), but he assigned no return of Christ at all to that date; Russell believed Christ had already returned in 1874, thus he was not looking for any other date for that return. I will say also, that, to my understanding, not all Second Adventists agree about 1881. Nevertheless, to my knowledge, the Seventh-Day Adventists have never said anything at all about expecting anything for the years 1874, 1878, 1881, nor 1914. The Seventh-Day Adventists represent a controlled organization; the Second Adventists do not represent a controlled organization.
in george orwell's novel 'nineteen eighty-four' the capitulation of the principal protagonist is portrayed in his willingness to assent to the proposition that two and two make five.
once he had denied objective reality, his mental conquest was complete and he was no longer truly the master of his own mind.
nineteen eighty-four is in many ways, a very depressing read.. a charge commonly leveled at jehovah's witnesses is that the type of mind control envisioned by orwell has been and continues to be used on them.
The life story of Maxwell Friend appeared in The Watchtower of August 15, 1967. Friend recalls that in 1912 he obtained a copy of The Divine Plan Of The Ages and then:
"...shared in spreading the good news of God's kingdom as well as in giving emphatic warning that the year 1914 would see the beginning of the world-shaking "time of the end" of the present evil disorder of things." (p. 507)
Obviously, this is not true. It is projecting back the teaching of the JWs to the time before 1914 a teaching that did not exist before 1914. Russell was certainly not expecting the "time of the end" to begin in 1914, since he believed that the "time of the end" had already begun in 1799. Russell died believing that the "time of the end" had begun in 1799. Maxwell Friend may have thought he remembered that teaching before 1914, but in reality that teaching did not exist for many years after 1914. Or perhaps he was confusing "the time of the end" with the "time of trouble." Russell was indeed preaching that "time of trouble" was to begin in 1914, but he was not teaching that the "time of the end" was to begin in 1914.
in george orwell's novel 'nineteen eighty-four' the capitulation of the principal protagonist is portrayed in his willingness to assent to the proposition that two and two make five.
once he had denied objective reality, his mental conquest was complete and he was no longer truly the master of his own mind.
nineteen eighty-four is in many ways, a very depressing read.. a charge commonly leveled at jehovah's witnesses is that the type of mind control envisioned by orwell has been and continues to be used on them.
Juan Viejo2: The problem with the WT Society is that they equate "new light" with telling lies about the "old light." By saying that Russell and his followers "were looking forward to 1914," when in fact they were really looking to 1881, 1884, and back at 1799, is not "new light" - it's lying!
I can say that Russell was looking forward to 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times and the beginning of the time of trouble (at least from 1904 on to 1914). He died believing that the time of trouble had indeed begun in 1914. He certainly was not looking forward to 1914 as Christ's return.
On the other hand, there was no centralized controlling organization in the days of Russell, and many of Russell's associates had differing opinions about the times of the Gentiles. Some were claiming that the Gentiles Times would end in October of 1915, not October of 1914. Some others believed the Gentile Times would end in 1933. Russell, while he gave his reasons for disagreeing with those conclusions, allowed for such disagreements with him.
Even the Edgars (John and Morton) disagreed with Russell in some respects, but Russell even allowed announcements of the Edgars publications to be presented in the Watch Tower.
There were also many ideas being presented amongst the Bible Students before 1914 about how long the "time of trouble" would last after 1914, and what to expect in 1914 or thereafter. Many of the differrence opinions were published in the pages of the Watch Tower. Russell in 1904 mentioned the Edgars thought of one year but rejected that, stating that we have no scripture to support the one year conclusion. In 1905, in the pages of the Watch Tower, Russell presented two differring opinions about how long the "time of trouble" would last, that of the Edgars, who presented the parallet that would allow it one year, from October of 1914 to October of 1915, and another of U. G. Lee., who presented a parallelt that allowed for six years, thus ending the "time of trouble" in 1920. (At times after that, Russell seemed to favor the one year theory, but at the same time he allowed for other opinions.) Both of these opinions proved to be wrong, but the point is that Russell was not dogmatic about what to expect in 1914, or 1915, or 1920, or 1933, etc. He said that he allowed others to have their views, and admitted the possibility that he could be wrong in his calculations and expectations.
Nevertheless, I along with many other Bible Students, do believe he was right in the expectation that "the time of trouble" was to begin in 1914, and that we are still in that "time of trouble" to this day. On the other hand, there are also many Bible Students who have many other opinions about 1914. A true Bible Student will be like Russell was, and not seek bind all other brothers and sisters in Christ to their own theories in this matter, for such is sectarianism. All things will be cleared up eventually in God's own due time.
in george orwell's novel 'nineteen eighty-four' the capitulation of the principal protagonist is portrayed in his willingness to assent to the proposition that two and two make five.
once he had denied objective reality, his mental conquest was complete and he was no longer truly the master of his own mind.
nineteen eighty-four is in many ways, a very depressing read.. a charge commonly leveled at jehovah's witnesses is that the type of mind control envisioned by orwell has been and continues to be used on them.
"Why then, do the nations not realize and accept the approach of this climax of judgment? It is because they have not heeded the world-wide advertising of Christ's return and his second presence. Since long before World War I Jehovah's witnesses pointed to 1914 as the time for this great event to occur." (The Watchtower June 15, 1954 p. 370)
This is dated 1954, but just recently this claim was made in one the forums by one the JWs; so the effect of this kind of distortion of historical fact continues in the minds of the JWs, and often spills over even to others who are not associated with the JWs.
There are at least two things wrong with this quotes.
(1) There was no "Jehovah's Witnesses" organization, nor any members of any such organization in existence before World War I. The WTS represented no such controlling organization in the days of Russell. No "Jehovah's Witnesses" organization; "Jehovah's Witnesses" could not have been preaching anything at all before World War I.
(2) There was no one at all associated with the Watch Tower Society that I know of before World War I who was pointing to 1914 as the time for "the great event", Christ's return and his second presence. Russell was certainly not pointing to 1914 as the time for Christ's return, since he believed Christ had already returned in 1874. Russell, however, was never associated with the Jehovah's Witnesses organization, and he actually preached against such an organization. Not only that, the Gospel (Good News) that Russell preached was almost the very opposite of that being preached by the JWs.
there have been a few more videos on youtube pertaining to c t russell and his watchtower society publishing company.. here are some that i thought were amusing and informative.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaecww9ox9m&nr=1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nghzmch5_3q&feature=player_embedded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaxbbvvoeeq&feature=related.
Video #1
Charles Taze Russell, although among the founders of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, never believed in a "visible organization" of God on earth, as do the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Jehovah's Witnesses' organization was formed after Russell died.
http://ctr.reslight.net/2010/01/11/true-church-searches.html
Nothing wrong with Russell's statements concerning the Great Pyramid; what is the point?
Yes, there is good evidence that the angels who sinned (2 Peter 2:4,5) before the flood became the gods of Egyptian and Grecian mythology.
Russell is correct in that ancient Egyptian Abydos tablet does trace back to Adam, thus verifying the Biblical account; so what is the point?
http://www.dawnbible.com/2000/0010-hl.htm
Nevertheless, as Russell also pointed out:
Isaiah 19:14 Yahweh has mixed a spirit of perverseness in the midst of her; and they have caused Egypt to go astray in every work of it, as a drunken man staggers in his vomit.-- World English.
Egypt, like many other ancient nations, although having a root to God's promise of Genesis 3:15, perverted that promise to idolatrous purposes.
Except that one believe that the Bible itself is quackery, I see nothing in the first video that would indicate that Russell was presenting anything that could be considered quackery.
i've heard certain people here refer to jehovah's witnesses as a mind-control cult, high-control cult; theories perpetrated for how long i don't know, but at least since the days of ray franz.
i had spent nearly forty years as a full time representative, serving at every level of the organizational structure.
the last fifteen years i had spent at the international headquarters, and the final nine of those as a member of the worldwide governing body of jehovah's witnesses.
An example of the latter can be found in the infamous case of Pastor Russell's "Miracle Wheat" cited in Dr. Walter Martin's, Kingdom of the Cults, (pp. 40-42, 1985 ed.)
The "miracle wheat" was not "Pastor Russell's" miracle wheat. The wheat was discovered by Kenneth Stoner, who was not even associated with the Bible Students movement.
"After the `work' had been well started here, `Pastor' Russell's Watch Tower publication advertized wheat seed for sale at $1.00 a pound (quite expensive in that day).
And yet, this was 25 cents less per pound than Mr. Stoner had been selling the wheat.
"It was styled `Miracle Wheat,' and it was asserted that it would grow five times as much as any other brand of wheat.
The one who "styled" the wheat "miracle wheat" was either Stoner or one of his associates. None of the Bible Students produced the name for the wheat.
"There were other claims made for the wheat seed, and the followers were advised to purchase it, the proceeds to go to the Watch Tower and be used in publishing the `Pastor's' sermons.
Russell never made any claims for the wheat, nor did he "advise" anyone to purchase the wheat. He did put notices in the Watch Tower to effect that some of the Bible Students were offering the wheat for sale.
Dr. Martin reproduced from microfilm on file in New York the following dates and titles from relevant articles of The Brooklyn Daily Eagle all published in January of 1913:
Not a very good source. The Brookly Eagle did everthing they could think of to pervert, distort and misrepresent practically every fact they found.
Miracle Wheat Scandal (1/1/ 1913, p. 1-2); Testimony of Russellite Beliefs (1/22/13, p. 2); Testimony on Wheat (1/23-24/1913, p. 3).
Financial statements proving Russell's absolute control, were made by (Watch Tower) Secre¬tary-Treasurer Van Amberg who was quoted as saying, "...We are not responsible to anyone for our expenditures. We are responsible only to God," (1/25/13, p. 16).
Every Board of Directors and officers of any corporation are responsible for the expenditures of they are being made; however, the Van Amberg adds that they are responsible only to God. Van Amberg did not say that Russell had "absolute control."
Government experts testify on "Miracle Wheat" and ascertain beyond doubt that it is not miraculous or overly excellent (1/27/13, p. 3); Prosecution and Defense sum-up. Russell assailed but not present to hear it (1/28/13, p. 2); Russell loses libel suit (1/29/13, p. 16).
In reality the Eagle presented only one witness who presented affividavits of people whom he could not name. On the other hand, many different farmers had provided their testimony on behalf of "miracle wheat."
Some modern Jehovah's Witnesses may wish to minimize the significance of the "Miracle Wheat" claiming that the profits from its sales went to the Watchtower Society and not Russell himself.
I am not with the Jehovah's Witnesses (nor was Charles Taze Russell), but it is indeed truth that Russell did not profit from the sale of miracle wheat.
However as Martin points out, Russell owned 990 of the 1,000 shares of Watchtower Society stock. By this figure, 99% of every "contribution" for "Mira¬cle Wheat" was in effect a contribution to Russell himself.
Which is incorrect, since there were no capital shares of the Watch Tower Society ever issued at all.
Before going to court, The Brooklyn Eagle made this claim:
"The Eagle goes even further and declares that at the trial it will show that `Pastor' Russell's religious cult is nothing more than a money-making scheme," (Ibid).
This they did by perverting, distorting and misrepresenting practically anything they could find.
While the motives of Russell can only be judged by God Himself, few would argue that such "Miracle Wheat" claims today would be more at home in the National Enquirer than in the Watchtower - a magazine claiming to be produced by God's only true organization on the earth.
While the motives of the editors of the Eagle can only be judged by God Himself, the perversions, distortions and misrepresentation of facts that the Eagle presented would more at home in tabloids that are not too concerned with the facts rather than in a newspaper that should be actually concerned with the facts. Russell, however, did not publish the magazine The Watch Tower as "produced by God's only true organization on earth." Russell did not believe in an organization such as the Jehovah's Witnesses. However, should one also think that the claims made for the Borlaug's "miracle wheat" to unworthy of credence?
http://ctr.reslight.net/2010/02/18/borlaugs-wheat.html
If today's US Postal regulations against false advertizing and mail fraud had been in effect at the time, perhaps Russell would have lost more than a libel case.
The biggest reason Russell lost his suit against the Eagle is not because the Eagle had proven any fraud on Russell's part, but because Russell did not prove malicious intent on the part of the Eagle. Indeed, much of what Russell had to prepared as evidence in his case was never presented in court.
http://ctr.reslight.net/2009/03/27/miracle-wheat.html
http://ctr.reslight.net/2009/06/16/reply-to-critics.html
if you have been "brain washed" the control of your thinking has been wrested away from you and diverted.. .
hidden cues have replaced the ordinary path of logical analysis when examining your world.. .
think of this like a detour sign on a highway.
[[Russell: deliverance....Armageddon...life in heaven...]]
Russell's view of the "deliverance" was totally different from that of the JWs. Russell believed that not only "believers" are delivered, but that all the world of mankind will be delivered in the age to come. The main reason he started printing the Watch Tower magazine was to defend the "ransom for all", the teaching that Adam and every man, woman, child, baby, infant, etc. who descended from Adam will be blessed in the age to come because Jesus died for all. Thus, probably the main theme that can be found in his works is that of the "ransom for all." Bible Students today still hold to his central teaching, whereas Rutherford led his "new organization" into rejecting that teaching.
Russell's view of "Armageddon" was also different than that of the JWs. Russell did not have any thought of millions of people being eternall destroyed; instead, he viewed Armageddon as a time for disciplining the nations so as to humble them in preparation for the blessing of the heathen in the kingdom age.
Russell believed the church would have life in heaven, but that the regenerated world will live forever on the earth. Russell believed that the "other sheep" that Jesus spoke of will be those of the world who become his sheep in the age to come, and who will live forever on the earth, not in heaven.
