according to apocalypse delayed, russell got many of his ideas from a conference called albury park.. .
here are the sources of his ideas for eschatology:.
and lastly, here are the sources for the ideas that jw's claim make them "the truth": rejection of the trinity, hell, and the inmortal soul..
According to Apocalypse Delayed, Russell got many of his ideas from a conference called Albury Park.
Here are the sources of his ideas for eschatology:
And lastly, here are the sources for the ideas that JW's claim make them "the truth": rejection of the trinity, hell, and the inmortal soul.
i want as many minds put into this as possible.. there is a new argument among the extreme jw apologists, saying that even the disciples promoted mistakes.
they base themselves on john 21:23. keep in mind, i am not a believer but i want the answer from a believer's standpoint, please.. .
nwt:.
Thank you very, very much everyone!
You all are AWESOME!! =)
I answered very much like the responses to this post, and that person never came back. Complete knockout!
i want as many minds put into this as possible.. there is a new argument among the extreme jw apologists, saying that even the disciples promoted mistakes.
they base themselves on john 21:23. keep in mind, i am not a believer but i want the answer from a believer's standpoint, please.. .
nwt:.
I want as many minds put into this as possible.
There is a new argument among the extreme JW apologists, saying that even the disciples promoted mistakes. They base themselves on John 21:23
Keep in mind, I am not a believer but I want the answer from a believer's standpoint, please.
NWT:
(John 21:23) 23 In consequence, this saying went out among the brothers, that that disciple would not die. However, Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but: “If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you?”
Some Bible commentaries:
#1
Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If. . . .—The mistake of the brethren arose from their not attending to the force of the conditional particle. They took as a statement what had been said as a supposition, and understood it in the then current belief that the Second Advent would come in their own generation. (Comp. 1Corinthians 15:51-52; 1Thessalonians 4:17.)
#2
Then went this saying ... - This mistake arose very naturally:
1. From the words of Jesus, which might be easily misunderstood to mean that he should not die; and,
2. It was probably confirmed when it was seen that John survived all the other apostles, had escaped all the dangers of persecution, and was leading a peaceful life at Ephesus. This mistake John deemed it proper to correct before he died, and has thus left on record what Jesus said and what he meant.
Then went this saying abroad among the brethren,.... It not being rightly understood by some one or more of the disciples present: it was divulged with a wrong sense annexed to it among other persons; who, though not of the eleven, yet were followers of Christ, children of God, that belonged to the same family, and were, in a spiritual relation, brethren to each other, and to the apostles:
that that disciple should not die; but should remain till the second coming of Christ, and be found among them that shall be then alive, and be changed. And such a notion not only was among the ancients; but Beza, in his notes on this text, tells us of a strolling wicked fellow, that gave out that he was the Apostle John; and was encouraged by some, particularly Postellus, a Sorbonic doctor, but was afterwards burnt at Tholouse.
Yet Jesus said not unto him he shall not die, but if I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? These are the words of John himself, the disciple spoken of, who gives a true and just account of Christ's words, freeing them from the false sense that was put upon them; which shows his ingenuous disposition, his integrity and love of truth; being unwilling that such an error should obtain among the disciples, and pass in the world for truth.
My question is:
How do we respond to this? Was error PROMOTED AS TRUE DOCTRINE BY THE APOSTLES?
I think there is a tremendous fallacy here... a) the saying was not inspired.b) it was corrected by an inspired writer, John, c) the "brethen" could be anyone, not necessarily the apostles, d) it was a rumor, but it never appeared in the Bible as true doctrine.
Any other responses to this?
Thank you!
i waited a week to avoid any spoilers.. last week's episode was harsh, to say the least.. a live burning-at-the-stake of a child to please the gods.. and yet, we have conventions taking place around the world - with bravos to those parents who sacrifice the emotional well-being of their children by shunning them.
clap-clap-clap.. what is worse, killing them outright, or the long, drawn-out emotional sacrifice demanded by the modern-day baal, gb 2.0?.
Can I talk about the last episode??? Please???
reuters - april 1st, 2015, new york.
cults merge in a $10 billion transaction.
the cults known as "jehovah's witnesses" and "scientology" announced on wednesday their merger.. observers on both religions are shocked.. "i can't believe that they would do that!
REUTERS - April 1st, 2015, New York
CULTS MERGE IN A $10 BILLION TRANSACTION
The cults known as "Jehovah's Witnesses" and "Scientology" announced on Wednesday their merger.
Observers on both religions are shocked.
"I can't believe that they would do that! I mean, our beliefs are so different!! They believe in some space god, and we believe in the only true God, Jehovah!", said Michael Spencer, a Jehovah's Witness from Iowa.
Both PR reps in both religions tried to appease their followers by trying to point out the benefits:
J.R. Brown, from the Jehovah's Witnesses, said: "What our dear brothers and sisters must see, is that this is a blessing from Jehovah. Now we have even more ways of shunning, and even more words to add to the pure language! For example, before we only had disfellowshipping, now we have disconnection! We only had the words "apostate" and "Bethel", now we have "supressive person" and the "SEA Org"!"
Although David Miscaviege, the director of the Scientologists, is very happy about the merger, he said there were some challenges ahead.
"We had to get rid of the Governing Body. It was too many leaders, it is best if I run this show. But no worries, they all have wonderful compensation packages, close to $100M each. We also fired the legal team of the Witnesses... They suck!! I mean, losing the Candace Conti case? Our lawyers won against the U.S. Government! Also, we are going to get rid of other useless departments such as their PR department. Brown doesn't know."
Only one Governing Body member spoke, on condition of anonymity.
"Many people will be shocked. I know. We even chose the day right, April 1st, normally called April's Fools, to mess around with people's heads. They won't know if it's a joke or not".
why, he even has gone to some meetings at their kingdom hall!
someone calls with a large wedding tent that they would like to donate and set up in the kingdom hall parking lot for the public memorial on friday.
i was amazed how people who came that didnt even know whitney, but simply felt a need to be here and comfort the family.
I came out of the cult because of someone commenting on the news reports to go to jwfacts...
THANK YOU to whoever that was!!
according to various news sites, the boy was declared cancer-free.. good for him!.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3008435/ashya-gets-clear-parents-say-afraid-come-home-family-worried-children-taken-care.html.
According to various news sites, the boy was declared cancer-free.
Good for him!
http://www.rockstargames.com/epsilonprogram/.
turns out that if you have ever played grand theft auto v, you may have gone through a series of missions to... join and leave a cult!.
there's not one, but two cults in gtav.
I just found out that there is even a cult exposer website on GTAV!!
No freaking way!!
This is the cult abandonment website of GTA 5
http://www.rockstargames.com/epsilonprogram/.
turns out that if you have ever played grand theft auto v, you may have gone through a series of missions to... join and leave a cult!.
there's not one, but two cults in gtav.
http://www.rockstargames.com/epsilonprogram/
Turns out that if you have ever played Grand Theft Auto V, you may have gone through a series of missions to... join and leave a cult!
That's right!! There's not one, but TWO cults in GTAV. One is called the Altruist Cult, they are like the Jim Jones of GTAV, and then there's Kifflom, a mockery of scientology. But it's interesting how Rockstar understands cults...
I love how they parody cults... here are some "Testimonials":
"Kifflom changed my life. I used to have a well paid job, a family and good prospects. Now, I've given that up to find real meaning in wearing light blue and proclaiming my real religion. Kifflom!'
"I was lost. Luckily, I now go to regular meeetings of a cult group and give them lots of money, so everything is okay."
"At first, I was nervous about giving up my identity and sleeping with all of those men, but I really enjoy it now."
Here are some of the tenets of the cult:
1. The world is 157 years old - FACT!
2. Dinosaurs are a lie that people believe because they are weak - FACT!
3. You are happy, you just don’t know it - FACT!
4. We all come from the same tree - FACT!
5. Everyone is related to everyone else, except for people with red hair - FACT!
6. Sperm does not exist - it is a lie spread by biology teachers - along with everything else you have ever been told - FACT!
7. Men are supposed to lie with nine new partners a week. Women are supposed to lie with six, except for in July, when they must lie with five men a day - FACT!
8. Aliens exist and are present on earth. If you have a birth mark, you may be descended from Kraff, the famous Emperor of the 4th Paradigm - FACT!
9. Trees talk, but only some people hear them - FACT!
10. People who believe in something live much longer than atheists, and they have eternal life thrown in for good measure - FACT!
11. If you believe this and turn your hands and wallet over to EPSILONISM, you’ll live a happy life. Otherwise you are doomed - FACT!
12. KIFFLOM - HAPPINESS IS YOURS! KIFFLOM!
If you didn't know this, maybe you should read the Epsilon Tract.
The missions are increasingly stupid (mimicking cults), and at the end you can leave the cult and betray them and get $2.1M, or leave the cult and do as they say (and you get an old tractor).
Here's where they REALLY parallel the witnesses: The name of the missions:
| Seeking the Truth | Accepting the Truth |
| Assuming the Truth | Chasing the Truth |
| Bearing the Truth | Delivering the Truth |
| Exercising the Truth | Unknowing the Truth |
Weird right??
well, the switchover happened - there were a couple of things i had to fix which meant the posting was disabled for longer than i planned but it's now enabled and some people have already posted.. if you have any questions about the new format or suggestions on how to improve it, please post them here.. if you are having trouble signing in or posting then you'll need to email me instead.. many thanks to everyone for their patience during the changeover !.
Hi Simon,
I cannot see my inbox... I always get "Server Error" when I click on the envelope.
